What if the Universe Rewards Your Next Bold Step?

In this episode of The Underlayer, David Young sits down with business & leadership mentor Jodi Wilding to unpack the quiet ways high achievers play small: staying in safe roles, pleasing identities, and waiting for certainty that never comes.

We explore a powerful question:

What if the safest life is actually the riskiest?

Jodi shares the turning points that pushed her toward alignment: loss, motherhood, and realizing her bold, adventurous self had gone quiet.

 Together, we talk about guilt, worthiness, fear of rejection, and why belief has to come before evidence.

This episode is a reminder that confidence doesn’t come from thinking more.

It comes from doing.

Topics We Cover

• Why capable people shrink themselves
• Reframing rejection as neutral data
• Belief before proof
• Tiny, repeated actions that build momentum
• Sharing your real story, not just your resume

One Question to Sit With

What bold move have you been postponing because you’re waiting to feel ready?

Take one aligned action this week.

If this episode helped, follow the show, share it with a friend, and leave a quick review so more people can find The Underlayer.

Jodi's website: https://www.jodiwilding.com/

Jodi's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodi-wilding/

The Underlayer YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/@the_under_layer

The Underlayer Podcast Website: https://www.theunderlayerpodcast.com/

David's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-young-mba-indy/

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:02

You're playing small. I'm playing small. Most of us are playing too small, but today we're going to try to put a stop to it. That's what this episode of The Underlayer is about. This is a show where we uncover the hidden narratives beneath success, ambition, and the roles that we've learned to play. I'm David Young, your host. I work with high-performing execs and founders to stop hiding, and use storytelling and humor to tell the story that's been holding you back. Today I'm joined by Jody Wouting, a business and leadership mentor for high achievers, ready to realign, expand, and lead from within. Her approach blends intuition to strategic visioning to help clients clarify their next chapter, shift their self-image, and embody the most magnetic version of themselves. We're talking about something that most high achievers don't like to admit, and that's so that you are playing much too small, and you probably know it. You play small because it feels safer, safer to stay in the identity, safer to meet expectations, and safer to not risk fully being seen. But playing it safe does not make you feel fully alive, and that is the problem. So we're going to explore why we shrink, what's behind it, and how we can all step into bolder action. Jody, thanks for coming on the show today.

SPEAKER_00 1:04

Oh, thank you. And yes, I I love that. That's a great, uh, great intro.

Why We Shrink: Safety, Guilt, Worthiness

SPEAKER_05 1:10

Thanks. Um, yeah, I I I really like a lot of your LinkedIn posts. I just I don't know, I find it all pretty relatable. Um, we're similar in age, and even though we've had different life experiences, I think we've gone through some similar range of emotions when it comes to feeling stuck, um, not overly satisfied with kind of where we are, and really trying to take a look at like how do we get here, and then more importantly, like where like where are we gonna go next? Um, and trying to to live like a bigger, bolder, like more expansive version, something like that. Um, so I thought you'd be a great, great guest to come on and talk about it. Um so yeah, I just I don't know, I don't know what it is. I think society, part of it is society. Uh part of it, I think you know, our brains, our DNA is required to keep us safe. So our brain's always trying to do what it can to protect us or what it thinks is protecting us. But I don't know, I think a lot of people have you know hopes, visions, dreams that they can go their whole lives and never, never even try, like not even do it, but like they just they just think about it. Um I think we just get stuck in in that in that process. So yeah, I'll take your thoughts and then we'll go from there.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

Yes, absolutely. I think what you said, expectation, society, we kind of get into this just like default mode where we're comfortable and we're just kind of cruising along. And I don't know. I'm curious to hear your perspective on this. One of the things I'm doing a keynote next week on this. And what I realize with from the women's point of view is we we feel guilty. Um, we feel like we have to kind of put our dreams and desires aside for our family, for our kids, for you know, whoever else, and put everyone else first. And so I think that's one of the things that keeps us from playing small and from going after what we really want.

SPEAKER_02 3:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:01

And then also, too, one of the big things is worthiness for sure. That is um, that's been a big play in my life.

Oxygen Masks And Inverted Priorities

SPEAKER_05 3:07

Yeah, I there's I think there's definitely that's a definite societal thing that w that I've had other guests on the show and I've talked to women that talk about that exact thing, like the guilt, shame, uh, women typically caregivers, um, especially with kids. It's changed a little bit in the last 20 years, but historically, right, women are doing more of the child rearing and and and household stuff than than men are. Um and so then, yes, like there's a lot of that goes into that, and then there's how much energy is left to do like something that you feel is yours. Um and then there's guilt if you go after it. Um so yes, I think there's a ton, ton of shame and guilt that that society and maybe even family, friends, and maybe even you know partners, who knows? Um, so there's a lot, I think definitely a lot to overcome um there. And I've had, like I said, I've had other guests talk about that. And it it takes a while. I think it takes I think it takes a lot of time in your life, maturity, lived experience to to kind of step out of it or start start to step out of it and feel like you know what? It's kind of I mean, the the the cliched analogy is the oxygen mask on the airplane, right? You have to put yours on first before you can help anyone else. So if you're constantly giving all that oxygen to everything else, to people, jobs, careers, partners, kids, friends, whatever, then you like there's how much is left, right? Like how much is left for you? Um, and if you're drowning and you can't breathe, then how effective can you be in all those, in all those roles? So um it's a little it's a little counterintuitive because really it should be the opposite, but historically it hasn't been. So yeah, I think that's a huge, I think it's a huge barrier.

SPEAKER_00 4:43

Yeah. And you're right, it is, it's that flip of where I actually think it's selfish or believe it's selfish not to, because of the reasons why you said in the introduction, right? Like when you do that, you do feel more alive and more vibrant and more energized, and um, you're playing life full out, and then you have so much more to give to those around you.

SPEAKER_05 5:06

So yeah, that's it is right, it's backwards. So you you know, you spend all this time doing all these things to be drained, and then what version, what what version of yourself is even like available, right? You go meet a friend for a drink or coffee and you're just exhausted and you're tired, and then all you do is complain about all the stuff you're doing that you don't want to do, and that's not fun for you, and it's not fun for them. So then it's like, well, what's the point? It's like um, whereas if you have like energy and passion, like, oh, I'm working on this or I'm doing this, and then that brings energy and passion to your to your friend, and then they get it, and then it's like this compounding effect. So it's we have back we have it backwards, like most of society and life, right? We have it all backwards. Um and yet, and we talked a little bit about this uh before we started recording, and it was more about like careers and jobs, but it applies to so many other areas where like society just dictated this structure to so many of us, and then we just followed it, and then we just keep following it, and it's like it doesn't really work, and it doesn't really work now with again technology and this connectedness, this this global connectedness that we all mostly all have access to, and then it's like, well, we don't have to keep doing it like the same way, but like we kind of do. I don't know, it's weird, and that kind of ties into the topic. Like, how do we break free to go after like what like what we want? Um I don't know a lot of people that I don't talk to a lot of people that are like, yeah, I'm doing like I'm pretty much doing everything I want to do.

Community, Support, And Early Doubt

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Like nobody ever nobody says that like well, and and that is like the people that you hang around, right, are a big influence in the actions that you take and what you do. And I would say I was in that as well. But now once I started making these choices, new choices for myself, now I've created this community and these people around me who are doing that or going after that, right? And and challenging challenging themselves and and living bigger.

SPEAKER_05 7:02

So yeah, that's that's a critical point. The the people around you. Um and it's ironic. I was watching, I'm not a huge Alex Ramosy guy, but um I occasionally watch some of his YouTube shorts, and he had one recently, and he talked about when you're it was mostly about if you're trying to do something that's like outside the norm, which for a lot of people was like entrepreneurship, and now it's like online, some type of online business, consulting, coaching, whatever. Um, and he was like, you know, that's typically still, even though we're it's been around for a while, most people have been programmed that you have to work like a W-2 job. Um, and you can do that on the side if you want. But if you try to make that your full-time thing, or if you try to go after something, for the most part, the people in your life, your friends, family, uh, whatever, are usually pretty hesitant, like they because it's so different. And so he's like, it's ironic because you get the least amount of support at the beginning and in the building phase, which is when you need the most support.

SPEAKER_01 7:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 7:54

And then if you finally make it, then everyone is supportive, like, oh yeah, like I knew you were gonna do it. And he's like, that's when you actually need it the least because you've already done it. He's like, it's again, it's totally flipped, it's totally backwards, right? So it's hard to build that stuff because again, the people around you, and it's not their fault, it's their programming, it's resistance because it's not normal, and then you don't get it. And so a lot of people I think end up either quitting or or doing it like halfway or whatever. So the people around you, and if it can't be those closest to you, then like again, online, LinkedIn, or Instagram or Facebook groups or wherever your local community, like wherever you can then find the people that are like, yeah, I like believe in you, I support you, and they can help you. I think that's very important, uh, especially if you're getting resistance.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

So one of the things there too is another point that we have backwards is that idea that we have to see it to believe it. Whereas it's no, we actually have to believe it in order in order to see it, right?

Believe It To See It

SPEAKER_05 8:53

100%. Um, I was reading, I just read Arnold Schwarzenegger's book. It's called Be Useful, um, which was interesting because I read it Audible and he reads it. So that just adds. It's like you're like, it's like having a conversation with him, but one-sided. But like just his accent and just like, you know, there's just some humor in there. But so when he came to the States, it was like the I think it was like mid to late 60s, and it was all based on bodybuilding at that time. But he had like a pretty clear vision, like he wanted to be a movie star, and that was like his main goal. And people laughed at him. They were like, that'll never happen. Like you don't speak English very well, like you're just this big, like muscular guy. Like you'll they'll never cast you in a main role. Like you could be like a bodyguard or a security guy or whatever, or in the army, but like no one's gonna like you can't be a leading man. And he he was like, Oh no, like I can. And they were like, Well, if you do, you have to change your name. Like your name's too long, people can't spell it. And he was like, No, no, no. He was like, My name is fine. He was like, actually, my name will look great, like across like movie marquees. He was like, You guys have it wrong, but he but but he had this bel like he just had this incredible self-belief that like even though I'm not from the US and I and I don't speak the language that well, um, like I can do it. And then he just like he never gave up, and then eventually I think Conan the Barbarian in 84 was like kind of his breakthrough role, and then you know he did the Terminator, you know, not that long after that, and then you know the rest is kind of history. But um, yeah, that's a it's the belief part is huge, and it's hard because it's easy to get it's really easy to get talked out of it. It's really easy to lose the belief, or you'll start with like a hundred percent belief, but then it quickly can go to like 70% and then like 50%, and then you're like, I don't know, like maybe that's not the best idea. Because you just it's just so much negativity, like reinforced negativity, and you're like, Yeah, maybe they're right. Like maybe, yeah, maybe I can't do it, or maybe I should do something else, and then you just end up in this like trial and error phase that never goes anywhere.

SPEAKER_00 10:45

Yeah, and then you just kind of stay there and just pass it off as like a dream or a fantasy, but not actually something that could happen for you.

SPEAKER_01 10:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:53

And it it really does. Like beliefs, our beliefs are always supported, and everything comes down to what we believe about ourselves and what we believe is possible for us.

SPEAKER_02 11:03

And yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

And that's the work. Like, really, that is the work is just believing in yourself and and trusting yourself. Not everyone is gonna see your vision because it it comes to you, it comes to you for a reason, right? And so having that trust and belief in yourself is is the is the work, and that's where the power lies.

Jody’s Wake-Up Call At Forty

SPEAKER_05 11:25

Yeah, 100%. Talk uh if you want, talk about um, it's a good segue into. So you wrote a post about a month ago, maybe six weeks ago, um, that I I thought was just brilliant. But I think you're around 40 at the time, and you were just kind of you really assessed like your life and kind of wasn't in a place that you wanted it to be. Your relationship was a little bit off, uh I think watching Netflix, maybe drinking wine, like you had kind of become like a version of yourself that suddenly you didn't like recognize I'm doing a bad job paraphrasing it. But yeah, talk I just talk about that. I think because you made because you to me really stepped out of playing small because you started to make sounds like pretty wholesale, pretty major changes and and started on a totally different path. And I think that's a lot of people don't. So yeah, I'd just like to hear a little bit about that.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah, well, it's like you said, around 40, I think many of us are looking at our lives and thinking, like, what are the choices I made? Where am I now? Where do I want to go? Like, what am I actually doing with my life? And for me, around that time, there was my father passed away. And when we're faced with that, our mortality too, it really has you reflect on your life and look at like, am I really living here? Like, life is short. This is precious. And what am I doing? And so that was a huge influence in me starting to make these decisions. And then a year after my father passed away, my son was born. And and to something that you said about earlier was, you know, I just realized like I'm this hollow version of myself. Like I just felt, you know, I had shrunk myself so small that I was like, I don't even see myself anywhere. There's no evidence of me in my life anywhere right now. And for me, I didn't want that for my son. I was like, I want him to have this full of life, you know, happy, like going after my dreams, like living fully version of me and not, you know, just this quiet, meek, like, I'm gonna just watch TV and watch other people living. That's what it felt like I was doing was I'm watching other people living their lives. I'm like, no, I want to get out there. I want to be playing, playing this game and living fully. And so I think just with my father, you know, after he passed away, I was like, no, you know what? It's time. Like, I'm gonna just I'm willing to take more risks because who knows? Like many of us and people that I worked with at the time, right? They're counting down retirement. I have 17 years and five months and three days until I retire, and then I'm gonna live my life. And I was like, oh no, I cannot. Who knows? Like, that's not a guarantee that you're gonna have that time in 17 years. So yeah. So then I really looked at my life and I was like, okay, I need to start making making some choices. And I did. I don't think you always have to blow up your life. Yeah, I kind of did. And started over and yeah.

Time, Money, And Die With Zero

SPEAKER_05 14:34

Yeah, I mean, that's one way to do it, right? The kind of the nuclear option where you're just like, uh, fuck it. I'm just gonna burn it all down. Um we're just gonna start start from scratch. But I mean, that's certainly one way. Uh, but yeah, that's true. I mean, you don't have you can do that. Um, you don't have to. You don't have to start to make you pick one area and and start making changes, and then you can kind of gradually uh increase from there. Yeah, I think you know, death certainly is a powerful motivator. Um, I think anytime I've ever been to a funeral, even if it's not somebody that I even know that well, there's just there's something about that finality, and you start to real you really feel the shortness. Um and they and they could have been like a hundred years old. Like it doesn't matter. It's it's still a very short, even if you live to a hundred, right? It's still very when you look at the grand scheme of time, like a hundred years is is is quite small. Um yeah, the retirement thing is hilarious. Again, that's kind of it's something else that we were sold. Society did a great job of of packaging of packaging that. Um, you know, work 40 years, save 401k, uh, invest, don't spend too much, all that stuff. And then yeah, when you're 65 or 68, whatever, uh yeah, then you know you've you've put your 40 years in, you've paid your dues, you've played small, you've you've made the company a lot more money than they ever paid you. Um and then what if, yeah, what if you don't make it? What if you die on your 64th birthday and you never did it? Or or or you do it, but you have health issues, you can't travel, um, you can't get around. Um, then what? Like I so yeah, there's a book, uh Billy Perkins, I think he was a hedge funds guy hedge fund guy. He wrote a book called Die With Zero that I just read. You and I are similar. I saw one of your posts, you like to read start books and not finish them. And I think I'm like the leader in the clubhouse there, so we're we're tied. Uh maybe I do that all the time. I can't even tell you the last book I finished, but I do like I really like starting them. Um but the point of the book is that that is basically a broken like you should you should be optimizing along the way. Um, and if you get if you die, let's say you die when you're 80 and you have like two million dollars saved, he's like, that's awful. That's egregious. Like you should have been spending uh most of that money like along the way. You should have been maximizing and optimizing your life in your 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, like taking trips, adventures, whatever it is you're into. Like, don't don't save it all up. And and they're like, Well, what leave it to your kids? And it's like, well, yeah, I mean, but they're usually part of it. If you have kids, they're probably part of those experiences, and that's very meaningful for them too. It isn't just like here, I worked really hard and here's a lump sum of cash, but we didn't do anything together. He's like, that isn't any good either. Like, yeah, they're they have some money, but they didn't spend, they didn't do anything with you. Like, what'd you do with your parents? Well, I don't know. They worked all the time and then like we went out to dinner. Like, okay, great. Did you take any trips? No. Did you go to any games? No. Go to any concerts, like one. He's like, Well, that's that's not living. Right, that's not living either. So he's like, don't just save the money, like spend the money. And he has like examples of whatever, but it's it's that premise, again, that we have backwards. Um, that is just save and save and save and put it off. Put everything off, right? Just put everything off until you're older. And then there's no guarantee. Like, there's so many stories of of people. I actually had just looked up, I get drawn into YouTube music videos, like, and I just go down this like rabbit hole. But like this, this this like 80s rock video, and like one of the prominent like people in the video, she died when she was 60. Like she just like had a health issue that nobody knew about. And then she was just like, I was like, Oh, like I had no idea. It was like five years ago. But just like, oh, like that was really young. Like, how many things? And I started thinking, I was like, I wonder how many things she didn't do. Like, how many things do you think she put off? Like, oh, I'll do it later, I'll do it later, I'll do it later. Then you start feeling bad, then you're dead.

SPEAKER_00 18:11

And it's like, yeah, I don't know. That's it. It's it's my father was diagnosed with Parkinson's like in his, I think he was 56, and then he passed away in his early 60s.

SPEAKER_02 18:21

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Yeah, I mean you know, so you don't you don't know, and we're meant to be living and living fully and not waiting until we get there, which we're so good at. We'll wait until then, and then we're gonna enjoy it. And it's like, no, you're actually supposed to be living fully and enjoying it's so cliche, but enjoying the journey, enjoying your way, you know, way to get there.

Regret, Legacy, And Ideal Self

SPEAKER_05 18:45

And yeah, I don't know. It's a weird, it's it's a it's a weird, it's a weird thing. Um there's uh there's a motivational speaker, Les Brown, um, if you've ever seen any of his YouTube clips, and he talks about like the graveyard's the richest place on earth. Um, because that's where so many hopes and dreams and visions, like they all people took him with them. They didn't they didn't write a book, they didn't they didn't take a trip, they didn't do any of the stuff that they thought about their whole lives. Um and I've seen that, I've seen him talk about that several times, and I'm always like, that's just like it's frightening. And usually when I drive past the cemetery, like I that always like pops into my head. I'm like, I wonder like how many, like how many unfulfilled whatever like is all like right there. It's really kind of scary.

SPEAKER_00 19:28

It reminds me of this study, and I don't I can't remember the names of the people, which I really should, but it's a study um that they conducted of people who, you know, later in life they're basically on their deathbed, and it's 75 or more than 75% of them, they were regretting the chances that they didn't take. Not the ones that they did, not the actions they did, not if they failed, but they have the regrets of that, of like, I wish I had followed, you know, this dream, or I wish I had just tried that. And and it comes to that ideal self. And like we are here to to really discover that and express it and fully express our gifts and and who we are and and live fully.

SPEAKER_05 20:12

Not uh yeah, I think you've done a better you've definitely done a better job than me because you've trap you've done some pretty extensive like international traveling, right? You lived in Australia and you've lived in China, is that correct?

SPEAKER_00 20:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 20:24

Yeah. So see, I've like I've lived in like Kentucky and Ohio and like Illinois and Indiana.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

And soon Portugal.

SPEAKER_05 20:31

Well, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

One day. One day.

SPEAKER_05 20:36

Um uh if I went on your retreat, I don't think I would leave. I think I would just I think I would just stay.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

This is my new house. Yeah.

Adventure Years And Lost Self-Trust

SPEAKER_05 20:45

Um yeah, I used to my my old version when I was this probably 10, 20, 15 years ago, but I would I always thought of Fiji. I was like, I would just go be like a beach bum on Fiji. I would just sell I would just liquidate everything and just fly to Fiji one-way ticket, and I would just like live on the beach. I'd learn how to surf and I would just like bartend or something like to make some money, and maybe they give me an apartment. Um, but yeah, it's that's now moved to Portugal. Um yeah, we'll see. But yeah, like I I've I I was up until when I went to Toronto two years ago, that was the first time I'd been out of the country, out of the States, since 1994. So I'd been out of the country one time uh in 48 years, and that was to Jamaica, and that was my mom trying to save her second marriage. I was I was almost 19, and they were having some issues, and so they were taking like a romantic getaway to Jamaica, right? And she thought bringing her 18-year-old son on that trip, so the three of us, she thought that was gonna help. And I was like, Oh no, like I have I you guys are being gone for a week. I have big plans on my own. Like, I you I'm all set, like I'm great, I'm good, I'm gonna get the house to myself. And she was like, Now you're coming with us.

SPEAKER_00 21:55

I was like, That well, and there you go. That's wise because she was more worried about. What you're gonna do, and maybe that will end things. So it's safer to have them come come along.

SPEAKER_05 22:06

Yeah. So that was it. So I spent a week. So I spent a week in Jamaica with my mom and her then husband, and it was it was about as awkward as you can imagine. Um that was it. That was the only time I'd ever left the country, and then I drove to Toronto. So like I haven't like I've never been to Europe, I've never been to Australia, I've never been to Asia. Um, so you you've at least like you've been around, you've been to a couple different continents, and like you've at least experienced different cultures and stuff. So you're way ahead of me.

SPEAKER_00 22:32

Well, and this was so this was the thing too, because I look back and in my 20s, I was I was bold, I was courageous. Like I would get on a plane, I would decide I'm gonna go to Chile next week and get on a plane and fly there, land there, no plan by yourself by myself. Wow thinking I'm gonna learn Spanish on the plane. Um I did stuff like that, like go to China and teach English in this small town and you know the experiences that I had in Australia and like hitchhiking. I hitchhike across Australia. Sometimes I scare myself now when I think that's insane. I know. I scare myself when I think of some of the things that I did, but but also too around that time when I was 40, I was like, who is this girl? Like, where did that girl go?

SPEAKER_05 23:21

Yeah, where where'd the traveling adventurous Jody go?

SPEAKER_00 23:23

She was courageous, she trusted herself.

SPEAKER_05 23:26

I was just like You trusted other people too if you were hitchhiking.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

I did, I yeah. I felt that I was always supported, whether that's just that you know, young innocence and like I'm invincible. But I do think there's more to that. I think what I've realized now is that I did have this trust and I and belief. I believed with like conviction that everything was always working out for me. And it and it did, you know, and I trusted myself. I wasn't listening to other people. And it was when I started not trusting myself and I started listening to other people and their advice and the way they viewed the world and what is realistic, like you can't do this, like you've got to settle down and get a job and you know, get the pension and get all of these things. That's when I started shrinking myself until the point where I couldn't make decisions for myself. I'd ask everybody else. Uh, until then I was like, Where am I? I've completely gone. And so it was reconnecting with a little bit of a lot of people.

Misaligned Careers And Outside Advice

SPEAKER_05 24:36

Is that what is that what ultimately led you to go to nursing school? Because that was like a traditional like career path, and people were like, Yeah, that's that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Yeah, it was. I remember I was in Australia and it was I had these two paths. I was doing yoga every day, hours a day, standing on my head. And so I was maybe I'll go be a yoga teacher, but where's the future in that? How are you gonna make money? What's there's no stability in that? Uh and nursing, I was like, well, at least I could travel and I could be of service and still help people, which and different positions that I had kind of led to that. So I was like, okay, well, that makes that makes the most sense, but uh yeah, it was definitely a misaligned choice for me.

SPEAKER_05 25:25

Yeah, that I mean that happens a lot.

SPEAKER_03 25:27

Um it's easy.

SPEAKER_05 25:29

It's easy to get talked into quote unquote a a real like a real plan.

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 25:36

You know, you can't be you like yoga teacher is risky, nurse is stable, you always have a job. Um and they don't care. It's not I mean they care, but they don't care that that's misaligned or that you don't really want to do it. It doesn't matter. Like they don't think they don't think about that. So like if you'd said like if you'd said to them like, yeah, that makes sense, but I don't really want to do that, and I want to be a traveling yogi like all over the world, right? They would have thought you were crazy.

SPEAKER_00 26:00

Totally.

SPEAKER_05 26:01

Like that's totally you've basically like given up on life. You're just gonna be a bum. Um like you'll just be like a vagabond and scrape money together and like good luck.

SPEAKER_00 26:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 26:12

Don't call us. Don't call us when you need it.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Don't call us when when you need money and you're broke and because we told you because we told you that would never work.

SPEAKER_05 26:22

So yeah. I don't know. Uh that and that's the thing, and that's what I've really learned is that it doesn't, it's not personal. Like they don't they don't mean it towards you, they mean it towards anyone. Um because they don't think that's a good plan for anybody. Like so like it just happens to be you because you know them. Um so you bear the brunt of it. But um, it's a it's a I was talking to somebody over I think it was either Thanksgiving or Christmas, I can't remember. But I was kind of outlining my plan, being a speaker and growing the podcast and writing a book and like all these kind of bigger, like bigger plans, and like I could just tell they were just like you'll never make any money, like you'll never make any money doing that. Like that's fine if you want to do that, but like that's there's no there's there's no monetary value in that. Or if there is like it's that true, it's so small. What's that?

SPEAKER_00 27:12

And is that true?

Compounding Effort Versus Hourly Ladders

SPEAKER_05 27:14

Well, I don't think it's true. I think that's I think it's actually the opposite. I think there's actually significantly more uh potential money in that. And again, long term, I'm not talking about like next week. Um that's the other thing, too, is that when you're doing what I've learned is that when you're doing stuff on your own, everybody wants it to happen immediately. So they're like, yeah, well, when are you gonna make money? And it's like, well, it's compounding. It takes time, right? You don't grow a podcast in six months, you don't become an international speaker in two months. Like it takes reps and time, and you start small and it grows, but all that stuff compounds, and then when it takes off, then it's much bigger than anything you can do for$30,$40,$50 an hour because that doesn't go anywhere. That stays the same, right? Those that company is not gonna all of a sudden one day be like, you know what, you've done a great job the last five years. We're now gonna start paying you a thousand dollars an hour. They're never going to do that because they don't need to, because you'll keep doing it for the 40 or 50 an hour. So why would they ever pay you? The free market is different. The free market sees your value and it's like, oh, well, yeah, we used to pay you a thousand dollars for that speech. Well, that's now worth 5,000. Nope, that's actually now worth 20. Like, that's how it works. Um so yeah, I don't know. Um, but it's but in fairness, like even three or four years ago, I never would have, I would not have said that. I would not have believed that to be possible. I'd be like, yeah, I don't know, maybe. Now I'm like, oh yeah, I'll do it. I just it's like it's just a matter of when. Like it's not if. Um, but it took me a long time to a lot of ups and downs, mostly downs, to really form like a steel, a real steely like outlook of like, okay, fine. I don't care. It doesn't matter that you don't believe it. I do. And that's all at the end of the day, that's all that matters.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

That's all that matters. Yeah. And do you know what it does? It can take time for me, and it's embarrassing to say sometimes when I think about it, but it took me 10 years. I the coaching was when I I first heard of coaching when I was leaving Australia, and then it came up in my nursing, like it keeps coming up throughout, even in my nursing career. And there was a time, I think in 2011 or 2012, like right after I graduated nursing, I was did a coaching certification, but I just I wasn't surrounded by those people. I didn't know what was possible and how I could do this. I really focused on that. And so it took me a while, but it gets to the point, and I think this is it. It gets to the point when you're so uncomfortable with where you're at and how things are that you're like, well, I just gotta, I gotta just do it. I gotta just try, or it just gets so loud in your head that you're like, okay, shut up already. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna start making moves.

SPEAKER_05 29:53

Yeah, I totally agree. For me, it was always just to quit my job, and then I never did anything.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

So like I would I would get to the end of my rope with a job, and then I'd be like, All right, I like I have to quit. And I would quit. And that would feel good for like two days. And then it was like, all right, great.

Patterns, Identity, And Action Over Info

SPEAKER_05 30:10

You got out from under that. What are you gonna do? Yeah, now what? And then I'm like, all right, well, now I have time. So now I don't have to work, and you think you have all this time, so it'll just like magically happen. That doesn't work either. Uh just having a lot of time is irrelevant if you don't do anything with the time because that time's just gonna pass and whether you're being learning or not. Um and so I I did I had that's a that's a very repetitive pattern in my in my life is quitting jobs, thinking I'm gonna find something better, not, and then going back to like just basically a different not the same job, but like a different job, but it's the same. It's everything's the same. Uh I've done that three times. Um but I have gotten close. That's funny, like each time I've gotten a little bit like closer. So it's like maybe I need to get a couple more and quit, and I'll finally get there. Um but yeah, so it's but I think you're right. It's you it for me, it just you just get to the point where you're like, I just I can't take it anymore. Like I just I literally, like I will, I'm gonna lose it, or like just I have like I have to get out. Um that probably happens in relationships, obviously careers and jobs. Um and you're you just get to the point where you're just like that's enough. Like that's there's a final straw, and you're like, which is good. But if you just do that and do nothing else, that doesn't really that doesn't really solve your problem. Um then you're just miserable and you're not working anymore. And that's a problem because some people are like, oh, you're not working, you're not making any money. Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_00 31:35

I know. Thanks for pointing that out.

SPEAKER_05 31:37

Right.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yeah. And and then it is, that's you gotta look at because it's comes down to our identity, right? And and again, the beliefs that we have about ourselves, that's probably why you're creating that recreating that same pattern. And so looking at it.

SPEAKER_05 31:53

I thought books, I thought reading books would really help me, so I read a bunch of books. I did nothing.

SPEAKER_00 31:57

No. Yeah, no, but it felt good. And we all do that. It does feel good, right? Because you feel like you're doing something, you're learning. You're like, okay, yeah, this resonates, this is good. But yeah, information, and we love that. We're it's always about more information, but then it comes to know you actually have to just start doing and trying and kind of figuring it out as you go along and believing in yourself, working on those beliefs.

SPEAKER_05 32:24

Yeah, the belief, and I think the what you just said, the action is the is the most critical piece. Uh, if anybody's listening and they're like, I want to be bolder, I want to take bolder action. That would be my number one recommendation is just take act, like do something. Like whatever it is you want to do, it doesn't have to be again, you don't have to book a one-way trick, one-way ticket to an exotic country. Can if you want, it doesn't have to be quite that uh bold, but like just whatever it is, like just take action. And usually once you start taking action, you'll start taking more action. Thinking leads to more thinking, which will get you nowhere. Action typically leads to more action, which will at least move you in some direction. It might not be the right direction, but then you'll know that, and so then you can pivot. But that's because everybody wants to have like the perfect, like, oh, I don't know if it's gonna work out, or I would do it, but I'm not sure. It's like, well, you'll you're never sure. So that's out. And I that was another thing is I always wanted clarity and certainly like I'll do it if I know it's gonna work out, which is insane because we can never know that. So like that if you wait for that, you just wait forever and then you die. So like that was a weird, that was a weird thought that I had. No shit. Everybody would do everybody would do that. Like, if I knew it was I do this and make a million dollars, well, you would just do it. That's not how it works.

SPEAKER_00 33:37

No, that's not how it works. And waiting for clarity, that's not how it works either. The clarity comes again from taking those actions.

SPEAKER_05 33:45

Oh, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 33:47

But I I get it. Like I'm leaning up and I still play in this space of like, okay, where am I, you know, playing, playing small? What and I love this question of what would you do if you weren't afraid?

SPEAKER_02 33:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:00

And one of the things for me was do video content. Like I want to show up on video, but I have a lot of beliefs about myself and what that is, and perfectionism is like so so much comes up there. And so you can you can sit on these things for a while and stew about it and prepare for it and wait for the right time. But then it comes down to at some point, I just have to start hitting record and just do it.

Perfectionism, Video, And Starting Messy

SPEAKER_05 34:27

Yeah, that's uh you YouTube is new for me with this podcast. I did not do YouTube for the first one, it was audio only. Uh, but I knew if I did a second one that I wanted to do the video uh aspect. It's really interesting. Uh it's a and it's YouTube's its own, its own beast. I don't know that much about it, but I know enough that I can get these episodes uploaded, and then Riverside gives me some shorts, and I'll throw some shorts up and I link those to the videos. I have no idea after that what happens. Um but it's just it's out there. I guess people can find it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 34:57

Um, but that's it. Like you just yeah, you do it. Um you never know who sees it, but that's the kind of the point. Like you're just trying to put good content out, and then like after that, it's out of it's out of your hands. Um of the shorts do pretty well. Some have five views. I don't know. Um yeah, I don't I don't know. I think uh, you know, when I was we talked about being 40, I think there's a 40 is kind of a I don't want to say a magic number, but it's a it's a number that I hear a lot. People are like, yeah, right when I right around when I was either getting ready to turn 40 or I turn 40 or whatever. Close to that age, maybe it's the midway point, I'm not sure. Um but I think a lot of people do a lot more reflecting than like you've you've been out of school for a while, you've probably worked for a while, um, probably been in some long-term relationships, so you have enough like lived experience to start evaluating, I think. Um like when you're 25, it's hard because what what what have you really done? But you add another 15 years to that, then you've probably done a decent amount. So then you have enough kind of data and evidence to be like, all right, like these are decisions I made, this is where I'm at. And then you're like, okay, this is not great. I didn't really plan on being here, I don't want to be here, it's not what I thought it would look like. And so then you start doing like, okay, like, well, what else? What would I do? And that's the part. So I think that's fine. Because obviously hindsight's 2020, so you're like, well, I wouldn't do this again. Well, of course you wouldn't. If you knew it, if you knew it wasn't gonna work out, you wouldn't have done it. But again, we don't know, so that's why we do it. So that's so there's no reason to think about that. But you can take that information and look forward, be like, all right, well, I don't want this to repeat itself for the next 10, 15, or 20 years. What do I do differently? And that's where I think people get stuck, is they have that vision, like what you're talking about. Like, I know I want to do video, I know I want to do more video content, but then you don't, and then you think about it, and then time goes by, and then you keep thinking about it, and then you don't, and then that then becomes like a pattern. So I think people have that and they can evaluate it. And I think there's the missing step is then bridging that gap between like, I know I don't want to be here and I would like to be over there. How do I start taking those steps? And it doesn't have to be the huge leap, right? You don't have to go all the way to the end, but you need to at least go to the block, end of the block. But even that is hard for a lot of people. So I think that's getting people to be like, all right, just take one small aligned action without knowing the outcome, without knowing where it's gonna lead. But usually though it's gonna be different, that can start to build some momentum, and then you're like, all right, now I'm gonna try this or I'm gonna do more. That was good, I'll do more of it. Uh, that wasn't great. Um, but I don't know. There's something that keeps us something that keeps us in the box uh for a long can be a long time, maybe your whole life.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Yeah, well, it is. I think it comes down to like if we think we're worthy, fear for sure, fear of and the focus on the outcome. Um, and rather than is this something that, you know, why do I want to do this? Like, why is this coming to me? And focusing rather on that than the outcome.

SPEAKER_02 37:59

Yeah.

Outcomes We Can’t Control

SPEAKER_00 38:00

Because that puts a lot of pressure. Like, even when I think of doing the video, right? If I think about okay, well, why am I doing that? I could get focused on the outcome, and that adds pressure, and then that's gonna stop me from even starting because I've already just made it so much bigger and put so much pressure on it. Where it's like, no, I actually just want to do this for my own growth. And how can I just start doing that and sharing and and talking that yeah, no, 100%.

SPEAKER_05 38:29

And we, I mean, we're an outcome-based society and that starts really young. Like, if you play sports, did you win or lose in school? Did you make an did you get an A? Um, and so it's all very tied to the result. And most of that's out of your control. Uh both my kids play sports. I played a ton of sports. I tell them all the time the the winning and losing is for the most part, you don't have control over that, especially if you play a team sport. Play an individual sport, you have a little bit more control. But even then, there's other factors. But if you play a team sport, like you just like there's just too man, there's just too many factors. Um so you can only control your own, excuse me, you can only control your own effort, your own attitude, energy, passion, like what you're bringing, and then after and then after that you release it. So yeah, it's but that's that gets ingrained to us, and so we're like, oh, if I'm gonna make a video, like it what am I gonna get out of it? Like, can I get a client out of it, or can I get a thousand views like you want? And then and that again, like especially with YouTube, it's like like once you release it, it's not up to you. Like it's just like you're nothing. Like it's could again, it could get five views, it could get a thousand, and everything in between or more, it doesn't matter. Like you just don't you literally don't have control. You're only you can have control over is like how much content like how consistent am I, how much content I put out, and then whatever the goal is, then you get there eventually. But that all comes with doing. Um, but yeah, we that's again, uh I think that's that's the title of everything is like society just programmed us backwards.

SPEAKER_00 39:55

Right? It's backwards.

SPEAKER_05 39:56

Everything's backwards.

SPEAKER_00 39:58

Everything's backwards. And it is, and so it's great to to question it, right? Like how we were questioning even just the nine to five. Like, is this really what I want? Does this work for me in my life? And what do I really want? And questioning those things where we just take it as fact, and it's not.

Bold Action And Being Carried

SPEAKER_05 40:19

Yeah, like I I'm a little bit older than you, but uh I was I totally bought the whole like go to school, four-year degree, get a job, grind it out for 40 years. It's a terrible plan, and I and I'm a I mean, I'm fairly cynical and definitely a questioner, and I'm an only child, and I I'm very independent, and I was not a I was not a huge like I'm just gonna do it because everybody else is doing it. Like that wasn't kind of my nature, but with that one, I I never questioned it. I was like, oh, okay. Yeah, sure. Yeah. So I got a degree I didn't want, I got a job I didn't want, and then I and then I couldn't, then I couldn't get off. Then I'm then life started, and then it was just like I'm on this train and like I I'm like I'm like desperately pulling like the hand, like I want to stop, I want to stop, I want to get off. And then I would get off, and then I would just get right back on a different train going the same direction. Like, oh, nope, that doesn't work either. And then I just keep doing that. So it's like it just took forever to like try to make some kind of sense of it. But it's like when I was 18, and maybe it's you're not old enough, I don't know. But like I should have been like, that sounds like a terrible plan. Like, I don't do I want to work for 40 years for a company? Why do I want to do that? That doesn't sound like fun.

SPEAKER_00 41:25

No, and see, I did like I was no, I'm gonna be unconventional. At 18, I moved out west and I was not going to university right away, and I went and did all of these things, but it's so loud that pressure and the the noise out there, especially at that time. I think now it's different and we're changing. But it it was so loud. And so yes, I was there, but it pulled me in, right? By the as I was approaching 30. That's when it just got so loud of you know, when are you gonna settle down? When are you gonna go to school? You're not getting any younger. So you, you know, you gotta do this.

SPEAKER_02 42:03

Yeah, so it did.

SPEAKER_00 42:04

It pulled me back in, and then yeah, I was on that train until I'm like, okay, no, I can't, I can't do this.

Catastrophizing Versus Better-Than-Expected

SPEAKER_05 42:10

Well, at least I mean, I applauded because at least you had at a at a fairly pretty young age, uh, if you were 18 and and already making those kind of independent, like pretty big, uh, pretty big moves. Um, like I I would not have done that. Like, I just I don't know. I was funny, I was talking to somebody. Uh I told you about the exercise I was doing where I kind of look back at my especially like my childhood and stuff. And so, and you see this a lot on LinkedIn or career coach. And so if you're struggling to figure out what to do, it's like, well, what do you want to do when you were a kid, like 10, 11, 12 years old, right? That's like a clue, right? Yeah. So for me, it's like I wanted to play in the NBA because I was really good at basketball. I was the best player on either team pretty much my entire youth. So I was like, oh, I must be pretty good. I had no, I had no concept because of no internet, like I had no idea how good people are like around the world were. I was like, well, I'm pretty good in this local region that I play in, so I must be like really good, right? Um so and and of course when you're a kid and you say that, like no one's like, no chance, what's your backup plan? They they encourage it. So, but if they so I so if they had questioned it and be like, okay, so on the off chance, if you're not a one percenter, uh, what would you do if you don't play in the NBA? And I was like, oh, well, I'll just I want to be a sports broadcaster because I like love sports, I talk about sports, I I just know sports from a very young age, I just understood all the sports. I would read the sports page, and in like 10 minutes, I could memorize literally the entire sports page. Like I could tell you every box score, every number, almost savant-like. But if you give me any other section of the paper, you I could spend hours with it, I couldn't tell you one word because it didn't matter to me. Like I wasn't interested. Um, and so so I'm so I'm talking about this. And she was like, and so then you did nothing. Like you did nothing to make that happen. I was like, right. Because I got to high school and then I went to college, and then they were like, you have to pick a major. And no one was like, What do you want to do? Like, no one said that. They were like, What major what major do you want? I don't know. Um, but I was good at math and science. I was like, I I guess I'll pick biology for no reason. Like nothing that was aligned with what I wanted to do, but I did it. And then I got a job selling pharmaceuticals, which was somewhat related to using the biology. And that was considered to be at the time like a very good job. Like I had a company car, I didn't pay insurance, I didn't pay for gas, I didn't pay for my cell phone, uh, the salary was pretty good, like all these things, right? It was it looked great from the outside, not even remotely aligned with like what I wanted to do. And I never and then I never did it. So she was like, You went like your whole life and you never did any of it. I was like, it didn't even occur to me.

SPEAKER_02 44:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 44:39

And and no counselor, like no one in my life, no, no counselor was ever like, Do you want to do this? Like, what do you want to do? It's like, well, I don't want to sell pharmaceuticals. Okay, well, that's where you're headed. Well, I don't want to do that. Well, then don't do it. Like, that's like no one, like that never came up. And then once I got the job, it was like, that's a great job. Everybody was like, Oh, can you get me in?

SPEAKER_04 44:58

I'll give you give my resume. Everybody thought it was like fantastic. And I was like, this job sucks. I drive 50,000 miles a year. Like, I don't ever leave my car. I drive all over. I wear a suit every day. Like I have to cater lunches. I'm basically a caterer in a suit. This job is terrible. Like, oh my god, you have a company car. Fuck that. I'm miserable. I did it for five years.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

Oh man. And then, so when or where is the sports fitting in? Did it come back? Did that kind of linger or stay with you?

SPEAKER_05 45:29

Yeah, I mean, it's it, you know, I I I played like like once I stopped playing organized sports, um, I played a lot of pickup basketball. I was a member at like a gym of the city I lived in, and there were a lot of guys that played college basketball. So we would we had pretty good pickup games. I did that for several years. Uh I started running, and then I started and then once I started running, I did I've done a bunch of races, like marathons and triathlons and tops course races, things like that. So that's kind of kept me active and like somewhat connected to sports. And then I've coached my youngest team the last few years. Both my kids play a lot of sports. So I've been involved, you know, from that. You know, I don't watch sports as much as I used to on TV. Um, but I still kind of follow it. But um, but yeah, it just it's just weird. Like you I had all I had all this, and it was so obvious to anyone be like, oh, he just needs to work, he just needs to do something like broadcasting-wise or sports team or something, and then yeah, no, not like not even close. Makes no sense. It makes no sense.

SPEAKER_00 46:24

No, and you're right, it goes based on okay, well, you're getting good marks here, so then that's the natural, like you should go into science and then see what comes from there. But you're right, it's not what would you love? What are you super excited about? What are you really curious about?

Proof Stories: Benches, Jobs, And Serendipity

SPEAKER_05 46:38

Yeah, and I part of it I think is just the time. Like, you know, this was you know, I graduated from high school in the early 90s, I graduated from college in 98. It's changed a lot now from what I've seen. There's much more focus on what you're talking about. Like, okay, let's think about like what are you interested in, what lights you up, what do you like to do, and then we need to align these courses, and even starts like in high school with electives. Like, let's take some courses to get you exposed to um this, and like and then and then see. And so you start to get experience. There's a lot more internships now, like trying to work someplace, be like, oh, just try it, maybe you don't like it, maybe do, or maybe it's something you've never thought of, but you are just like there's just a lot more. It seem it seems to be more. My oldest son's a a sophomore, he'll be a junior, and so he's starting to preliminary think about college, but these questions are starting to be asked at the high school level of like start thinking about it. So it's I think it's changed. But but yeah, that that was like no one, not I didn't have a single teacher. I don't even remember having a counselor in high school. If I had one, I'd never talked to them. The only counselors I had in college were simply to make sure I was taking the right classes to stay on track to graduate. So it was never it was never like an interest, like career development or like, hey, like, you know, what do you want to do with your life? No, no. It was like, all right, you have ex credit hours, you need x credit hours at the end of the semester to stay on track. So you need to make sure you sign up for you need 15 this semester, you need 17 next semester, like just make sure that your hours add up. That was it. Oh, and then like, you know, okay, with this major, you need to make sure you like you have to take you know certain buckets to get classes. So like they were just making sure that you weren't filling out your schedule and like screwing yourself when it came time to graduate, like, oh yeah, you actually missed like five classes. That was it. That was their only to me, that was their only job is to make sure that you were just taking the right number of classes and the right classes to graduate with whatever your major was. I never, no one, not a single counselor. I went to three colleges, so I I I was not reliant on just one. I wanted to make sure I experienced multiple colleges. So I had lots of advisors. I'm an expert on college orientation days, which is not something you want to be an expert on. And no one ever was like, What do you want to do? Like, how do you want to be spending your time? And I guarantee you, if anybody asked me that, I'd be like, Well, I'll tell you what it isn't. Wearing a suit and driving 50,000 miles a year, that is not on the bingo card. Um, and my favorite memory from that all that time, is so I this was in Ohio, and I had this at a very rural territory. So again, I have a suit on, I had a bag, I had a name tag, I'd walk into a doctor's office, I would check in, and then they would either be like, you know, there's a rep already back there, or just wait, we'll call you back. So I'd go sit down, and almost every time someone would look at me and they'd be like, Are you a drug rep?

SPEAKER_02 49:19

And I would look at them and I'd be like, No.

SPEAKER_05 49:23

And I would just wait for the reaction. Why would you think that I'm a drug rep? I have a suit on, I have a name tag with drugs listed on it, I have a bag with fucking samples and pens and shit spilling out. And you think I'm you think I'm a rep for a drug company? Why would you say that? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

SPEAKER_04 49:41

Of course I'm a drug rep. What else could I be? You think I'm here to see the doctor in fucking middle of the road, Ohio? I am not.

SPEAKER_05 49:51

You are.

unknown 49:52

Shh.

Rejection, Meaning, And Quick Decisions

SPEAKER_05 49:53

That was my that was my life for like five years. Oh, and then catering the lunches, which was awesome. I'd I'd literally go, I'd pick up all this food, I would take it, I would sit there and eat, and no one would talk to me. The staff never the staff never talked to me. They would just talk about their TV shows and the office and relationships and all stuff. I would hear all that. They barely would even acknowledge like my existence. I would just be sitting there like eating by myself. And every once in a while, someone would feel bad for me and be like, so like what do you like your job? Or like, where do you live, or whatever? Every once in a while, someone would be like, let's talk to the rep. But yeah. Yeah. Anyway, we got way off track there. But it it it just it exemplifies the point of just getting getting into things, and you're just like, why am I doing this? What am I doing? This is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 50:38

I know. And I felt that once I got into the nursing program, and I've had a few people in my life at that time that were like, You a nurse? Really? I'm like, don't worry, I'm gonna do something cool. I don't know what I've got this. Like, and uh no, it was yeah, maybe a month or a few months in, I was like, oh no, what have I done? And then I had to just kind of prove it. I was gonna prove it to people and prove it to myself that I could do this. And but no, it just never felt right. I never felt like I belonged. And I think I saw a post that you made the other day, which reminded me of that about switching. Like I went to different areas within nursing, just trying to find where do I fit in here? Where do I belong? Where can I, what are my strengths and how can I use these? Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_05 51:29

Didn't Yeah, I I thought I always thought, so when I was in sales, I thought, so like when I was a rep for pharma, I thought it was just the company I was with. I just needed to work for another company. And I never did, but like that was silly. Like they everybody was doing the same thing. So then when I stopped selling pharma, I was like, well, I just need to sell a different product. So I did that, that didn't do it. Then I tried another sales job for a different product, that wasn't it. So then I was like, oh, well, I need now I I need to work in an office. Like I had all these territory like driving sales jobs, so like well, I just need something stable. So I went to an office and that wasn't it. And then I was like, Oh, I need it, I I'll get a degree. If I just have my MBA, that'll open all these doors for me. I I did, it didn't. Um and so it was for me, it was always like just this external, I just needed to make this one external change degree, company, uh uh area, whatever. And then at some point, like that'll be it. And I I literally I did that for over 20 years, and then four different industries, six different companies, and it nothing ever changed. And then finally, like I mean, I'm very, very slow on the update. I was like, it's me. Like, yeah, I'm I'm I'm the problem. Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:41

But don't worry, me too. Me too.

Ideas Choose Doers

SPEAKER_05 52:43

I just I like literally beating my head against the wall, like, oh well this this one works. Oh no, this. Oh, oh yeah, this, this is finally it. Not none of it. And and that's the thing, is like like, is there a job out there like with a company that I would like and be good at? I'm I'm sure there is. Like the chances that I find it are probably pretty small. But overwhelmingly, like I it's it's the cage. Like I just I don't belong. I just don't belong in that box. Like I don't belong in that just like I have to sit here and do this like one or two like areas of this company and like just do this work for eight hours every day. Like I don't especially now, like when I was younger, maybe, but now it's like I like I can't do that.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Like I can't I can't Well, I don't know. Maybe you like I don't know if it's you can't. You could, and I think it goes back to if you were really clear about what that is and what you want and what lights you up within a company and your passion about the mission, you you definitely could.

SPEAKER_02 53:44

Maybe I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 53:45

But yeah, but maybe that's it's just not what you want. But I definitely the human that was like I see so many humans doing that, right? Of repeating the same pattern of well, maybe I'll go over here, or maybe this next relationship will be different, it will be better. And I did that, I did that so much until yeah, uh my 40s. That's where everything came. I'm like, okay, I am the common denominator here.

SPEAKER_05 54:09

Yeah, I'm it. I'm I'm and and maybe it's not the problem, but it's like it's it's me. It's like whatever I'm bringing, it's my energy, it's like what I want is so not aligned, whether it's the partner or the job. And so like you can keep changing it, it can never work. Like it just can't. It's not even their fault because you're like, this is so misaligned. That's the best, that's like the best way I can say it. And so until you figure out and you're clear on that, and then you can find a partner or a career path that's like more aligned, it'll never be perfect because that doesn't exist, but it can be closer, and then you can work you can start to work like in that area, and then it's and then it's not as much friction.

SPEAKER_02 54:51

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_05 54:54

What um I I saw this TED talk, it was like the universe rewards rewards bold action. And you've talked about like, especially when you're younger and terrifyingly hitchhiking in Australia, which I still I need to think more about that. Um maybe it's a safer country. I I'm just trying to picture doing that in like the states and like how long would it be before you'd be dead? Um uh but you you you must have felt something like that because you were like you were supported, like you just thought it would work out. So you had that feeling. Is that does that like resonate? Like if you just like if I just say not me personally, but like fuck it, and you just take this like extraordinarily bold action, the universe is like, I've got you.

SPEAKER_00 55:38

Yeah, a thousand percent. I totally believe that, and that was helpful for me in this, you know, this later stage of this chapter that I started in my 40s because I had that, um, I had that proof. I knew back then that when I once I decided things were always working out for me. I always was able to figure it out when I trusted myself and listened to myself. And so it was just reconnecting with that, but I had that proof from from then, and then it was how can I bring that in now? But it is true, the universe does um reward taking bold action because you're deciding and you're moving towards and you're very clear about like this is I'm willing to go down this path. I'm gonna start doing this, and I trust that you've got me and that it's gonna work out. I don't know, we focus on the how too, right? And you have to let go of that and that perfect plan. Yeah, and yeah, and and take the action, and you will be, you will be rewarded.

SPEAKER_05 56:42

So if I move to Portugal, it's all just gonna work out.

Mortality Math And Motivation

SPEAKER_00 56:45

It's all gonna just work out. But then it comes to right, and this is the part about that like manifestation and all of that that we get wrong is that belief, right? Like you really have to feel it and believe, which I did. Like there was unwavering doubt that things would always work out for me. Um and so you really need to have that that unwavering doubt and belief in yourself that that things will work out and and that you'll figure it out. And if you don't, then your results will support that.

SPEAKER_05 57:24

Yeah, it might not work out exactly what you're thinking, but it will be like close enough, or you know, because that's the other thing too.

SPEAKER_00 57:30

Be better, which is what we don't get. We're trying to control it.

SPEAKER_05 57:34

That's a great point. Um, we always think well, so our brains catastrophize, right? Like we always think of like the worst case. And really, I was thinking about this before the a couple days ago, I was thinking about this episode. It's interesting because the worst case scenario, I guess, would be that you died. I guess that's the worst, right? That's probably never like whatever you're thinking is that's probably not gonna happen. Then the next worst would be what you go broke, you end up homeless. Like the odds of all these, like it's probably that's probably like yet, could that happen? Of course, but you could hit get hit by a bus tomorrow too, and that's like anything could happen. But like the worst case is probably off the table. But yet that's like what we hold on to. It's like, oh well, if I move to another country or I leave this relationship or I leave this job, well, then I'll won't find anyone, or the personal find will be worse, or the job will be worse, I'll have less money, or like you start, you just start you start painting all the oh, all this shit. This could really go bad. So I should hold on, I should really hold on to what I've got because it could be worse, which is true. But what you're talking about, which is such a great point, is like it actually could be better. And that's that's the part that we that's the part we ignore.

SPEAKER_00 58:47

We do, and we're so great at all the what ifs that could go wrong that we forget about like, well, what if what if it did work out? What if it was actually better than I imagined? What if this was possible?

SPEAKER_02 58:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 58:58

That we we so easily go to the negative and and worry, and it's I get it. It is difficult to let that go and just have that faith and just move forward. Um but it's beautiful. I have a story that I tell when I was in Australia. I'd come back from Bali, I'd was stung by a scorpion, so I was in pain and I was sick, and I had a hundred dollars to my name. And I went to, I just I felt this call to go to Margaret River, and so I showed up in Margaret River with a hundred dollars sick and sitting on a bench. I had no plan.

SPEAKER_03 59:38

This is in Australia.

Doing The Work You’d Do Unafraid

SPEAKER_00 59:39

This was in Australia, it's little um town on the south, yeah, southwestern coast just below Perth. And yeah, I was sitting on a bench, I didn't know what the all the hostels were booked um because there was a surf competition, but I just trusted. Again, I was like, I don't know what is gonna happen, something is gonna work out. And it did with and better than if I had planned it. And I find that in there's so many experiences in my life that when you let go of that expectation and just trust what is calling you forward and pulling you forward, um that the outcome on the other side is really beautiful and more than you can even imagine.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:22

But we got to know what happened. You're sitting on the bench with a hundred dollars for the scorpions thing. Like, what happened?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:27

So within an hour, I think it was maybe an hour or two, uh, someone walked by and he asked me where I was going. And I was like, I don't know. He's like, you know, there's no buses coming. And I was like, Well, I actually just arrived. And anyways, I went, he had a place to stay, and it was funny because he was coming to Canada. He was Australian, but he was moving to Canada, and so I ended up taking over his room in the house with a group of people, and the next day I had a job at a pub down the road. And I had an amazing four months in in Margaret River before I hitchhiked across to that's inc that's incredible. In Melbourne.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:08

That's awesome. Um I think I'd still be sitting there. Uh it'd be out of I'd be out of the hundred. Um yeah, I mean that I mean that's perfect, right? Like that's just yeah, it just worked out.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:22

It just worked out. And again, it's because of the belief. I strongly believed. I didn't know what, but I was like, something will work out. It always, it always does.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:33

That's fascinating. Um the the TED talk the guy gives. Um the story's pretty simplified, but he's he was like in a coffee shop and he saw this girl that he liked, and she was with a couple other people. It didn't seem like she was with a guy. Um and he said normally, you know, he just would have walked out and not thought about it again. But he was in this like phase of of bold action. And so he wrote his number down like on a card or paper or something, and like interrupted their conversation, was like, Hey, I saw you walk in. You probably have a boyfriend. If you don't, here's my number, and he went and gave it, gave it to her. She took it and he left, and that was like that was it. Um and she ended up texting him like several hours later, and then they started dating, and uh, they dated for like two years. Um so he was like again, it's simple, but like that he was rewarded basically by just and that's not even that bold, but like most people you most people wouldn't. Most people wouldn't. What's funny is I was reminded I hadn't thought about this story in so long. This is I was in my early 20s and when I was going to bars and I was out with a friend, and then we met up accidentally with a guy that I worked with, and he was with a big group of people, so like all of us were together, and this girl that was part of their group was talking to me and um asking questions, and like I was single and like did I want a girlfriend, all this kind of stuff. So she was like, Well, we're gonna find we'll find you someone. Like, I'm gonna find you somebody to talk to. Like that became like her mission. And I was like, I'm I'm I'm all set. Like I'm I'm good. I don't, I don't, I'm fine. Um, and so she started like scouting the bar, and she finally found this girl that was like at the other end of the bar. She was like, What about her? What about her? I was like, I I don't know, I can't tell. She's like 50 feet away. I I don't know, maybe. She's like, Well, just just go talk to her. And I was like, Oh, I would never do that. Like, no way. She was like, Why not? I was like, What do you mean why not? Like, I like my ego and my like pride can't take it if she doesn't want to talk to me and she's like, get out of here, or they laugh at me. Like, I don't I'm not I'm not prepared for like that type of rejection. Like, I don't know. She was like, That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:31

She was like, You don't, she's probably not even gonna do that. How do you know she's not your soulmate?

Telling The Real Story Online

SPEAKER_05 1:03:35

I was like, I think that's probably just not likely. Um, but I don't, I mean, that's probably not. Um, she was like, but you don't know, like, she could be great, she could be like a perfect fit for you. I was like, I mean, yeah, in theory, you you could be right, but you probably aren't. But uh, we're not gonna find out. But anyway, as I was watching that TED talk, I for some reason thought of that specific instance. And I mean, she tried for probably like 20 minutes. She was like, You have to go talk to her. Like, just you don't even have to hit her with a cheesy line, just just put your hand out and say your name, and like it's nice to meet you, and like what's your name? Like that literally that simple, and like she'll either talk to you or she won't, but it doesn't matter. And if the worst, the worst case is she's like, I have a boyfriend or I'm married or whatever, and then you you walk back and talk to me, and it'll be like that never happened. I was like, Well, no, that's the see you skipped the part about where like I I don't I now have the rejection. She's like, but it you it doesn't matter. I was like, it does, and so I just it's just so funny. Like we try to protect ourselves so much. It's just crazy.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:35

And it is that's such a good point. And it's well, what is rejection, right? The meaning that we attach to the word no keeps us playing small. Right? Because we make it about us where it's not like who knows? Maybe the girl had a boyfriend, who who knows, but it's not really about you. She doesn't even know you. You just went up and said your name, and she was just like, sorry, I don't want to talk to you. Yeah, it doesn't mean anything about you or your worth or any of that, but we make it about us, and then we we don't take those, yeah, take those sections, take those steps.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:09

Yeah, we get we get in our own way, um, and we get in our own heads, and then that's a bad place. That's a bad place to be. Uh, my friend Jill, she's in South Carolina, she wrote a post uh last week and it said, Your gut, I'll I'm gonna screw the quote up, but you'll get the point. Your gut is telling you the answer, and it's up to you to listen, something like that. Um I thought about how true that is because so oftentimes like our intuition, our gut, whatever internal feeling is like leading us or pulling us in in a direction. And I I've had this happen so many times in my life, and then your logical, the analytics, the data, the logical part just totally overrides it. And it just totally like nope like tamps it down, stuffs it away. It's like no, that doesn't make any logical sense, and then you and I and I've done it so much, and it's always almost always. Been wrong, my brain. Like the the analytical decision is typically always been wrong. Almost always.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:06

So it's like it generally is. And so it is it's listening to that into that voice and taking quicker action. And this is I'm still learning to do this of just hearing that and just moving on it and not giving myself that time to talk yourself out of it or talk to someone else about it, or right? It's just listening and trusting and then taking action on that. And again, you will be rewarded.

Evolving Visibility And Nervous System Limits

SPEAKER_05 1:06:33

Yeah, that's a great point. I I'm like the leader in the clubhouse on that too. It's like I always run or won't run it past somebody because I want I want their affirmation that it's like on the right track, which is crazy because it's not even up to them. Like it's they don't they have such a limited insight into what I'm even talking about. It doesn't even matter, even if they were like, Yep, that's the greatest idea I've ever heard, it's not coming from any place of validity. So it's like, why do I even care what why am I even doing that? Like, this is what I think, this is what I feel. So I should just do it, and then like whatever. But you're like, oh, I'll I'll call so and so, or I'll text so and so, or I'll send a LinkedIn DM like, hey, I'm I'm thinking about this offer, I'm thinking about doing this. Like, what do you think about that? It's irrelevant. It is totally irrelevant what they think. Good or bad or indifferent. It's like if that's what you feel, do it, and then do something else. But like you know, John Q Public or John Q LinkedIn or John Q neighbor or whoever, like they it's not that's not their place because they don't it's impossible for them. They can't know what you're feeling. So like yeah, they can give you an opinion, but it's based on such limited information, which is mostly what you're telling them. So now they're gonna think about that and be like, that probably does sound crazy. Like that probably doesn't sound like a great idea. Like if you just give them this like cliff-nosed version, like, all right, this is what I'm thinking, and they have no idea what got you to that point, because you don't have time to get into all that. You're just like, well, this is the idea. Yeah, they're probably like, yeah, it doesn't sound great. Yeah, that's I doubt that's gonna work. Of course they're gonna say that. Like, it probably doesn't sound like it's gonna work, and then you're like, Oh, that was a bad idea, and then you don't do it.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:06

It's not and then you don't do it, and then you see someone else do it, and you're like, Oh, why didn't why didn't I just do that? Yeah, because they're seeing it from their fears and their limitations and their, you know, their own little world view, and so why why listen to them? It is, it's trusting, trusting yourself and acting quickly.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:31

Yeah, that reminded me. Have you read um Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert? She's the e-prep. So uh Big Magic, the my takeaway, I didn't finish it, but I got close to finishing that one. But the one thing I remember from that book, and I'd never this has never occurred to me, but what you just said about the idea is she talks about like ideas are not uh individual to you. So like they're jet they're general. So like and she told stories about like people who have like book ideas and they don't write it, but then like a couple years later, like almost the exact book gets written, they're like, hey, that person like stole my idea. And it's like, no, no, no. That idea was not that idea came to you and then you didn't act on it. Well, that idea is just like out there, it came to someone else, and then they did it. And that has really fucked with me because I think about like all of the ideas that I've had that I haven't done. I'm like, I wonder if it's out there. Like, did that go to somebody else and then they did it? Um that that like when I read that, this has been a few years ago, that like really like that really got to me. I was like, oh, like that's not my idea, it's just an idea, and I haven't chosen to do like much with any of them. Um so that was like like kind of creeped me out, but in a good way.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:38

Yeah, I know it is. I I do remember that story, and it's true. And so it's how can you close that gap between idea and action?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:47

Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:48

And then, you know, that's where the clarity comes, right? You're like, okay, well, this is coming to me, so I'm gonna start moving towards this, and then you know, you pivot, you take steps here, two steps left, or whatever, but you figure it out as you go along. Um, but it's how can you just start acting, acting on those?

SPEAKER_05 1:10:09

Yeah, a hundred percent. Um, we'll we'll wrap it up here. So I wrote the post last week or week before about that in the one and a half to two generations, it's like we never lived. Um and I I'd heard that before, and then I was uh reading an audible book on stoicism, and then whatever the author was was basically just reiterated it. Um but it hit me a little bit different, and then I thought of my great-grandparents and I told this story because my great-grandparents were born in the early 1900s, and then I, if assuming I outlive like my parents and my like aunts and uncles, like when I die, I'm I basically am the last, I'll be the last living person that remembers my grandfather. And I like because everybody had kids young, I did spend time with them. I was eight when my great-grandfather died, I was 13. So my grandmother died, so I I do know them and I had kind of I remember conversations with them, and I spent time with them, so like I I remember them, not just that they existed. Um and then and so I was like, oh, like literally, so and I said if I died in 2055, so 30 years from now, that'll be almost exactly 150 years from when they were born, and then I die, and then it will be as if they never lived. Like it's like no one will know that they lived. So it's like on the one hand, that's kind of depressing, and on the other hand, it's like should be kind of motivating because it's like, well, if it doesn't, not that it doesn't matter, but if like nobody's really gonna remember it anyway, and I have all of these like hopes and dreams and visions, what the fuck am I waiting on? Because it's not really gonna matter.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:34

But then we still don't do it. Like it's just insane.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:37

Yeah, because it's easier to stay where we are and just think about it and want it than actually take the steps to to go after it. What would you do if you like with that in mind, like what would you do if you weren't afraid?

SPEAKER_05 1:11:51

Yeah, so I I had that question recently. Um I used to have a hard time answering it. Now it's pretty clear, like I would I would I would record probably two to three podcast episodes every week because I love this so much. Um I would do public speaking and it would be a mix of like motivation and like entertainment or some kind of hybrid. Uh, and I would do some stand-up comedy. I would start I would start trying to go to clubs and try to tell funny stories. Um that I would that would be a majority of my like working time and effort would be on basically those like three activities.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:24

Which you're doing, which is amazing. So you're doing it getting closer. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:30

Not getting paid, not getting paid for any of them, but uh, I wasn't afraid, or if I knew for sure it would work out, then yeah, I would just quit my job today, and that would just be that that'd be my whole that'd be my whole ecosystem. Um and that's my long-term ecosystem anyway. Because this is the first this is the first podcast episode I've recorded in two months. I took a little bit of a break because of the holidays, and then I started this job, and that kind of messed with me and my schedule, and like a lot of other things kind of came up. Um, and so I kind of stopped the show. And so it took me almost like a it took me like a month of going through the emotions of having to work in an office 40 hours a week. Um like to calibrate that and be like, all right, this is kind of my temporary new reality, but I have to keep I have to keep moving towards what I want. And so this, like I honestly, I almost couldn't sleep last night. I was so excited to record this because that's like I love this so much. Um, but it felt good because it like I felt alive, and I was like, all right, like this this will offset like the way I feel like most of the time, like during the day. Um and so that's how I know that I'm close. That's how I know that I'm like getting closer because you measure like your feeling and your energy around it. And I didn't do that for a long time. I really ignored my energy in terms of activities. I would just be like, well, this sucks, but I'm gonna do it anyway. And I I just didn't really give that enough time to like be like, this is very draining for me, so I probably shouldn't be doing it. Instead, it was like, this is really draining for me. I think I'll try it for another three years.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:57

I think I'll just keep going and yeah, I'll just push through it, and this is what it's supposed to be like.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:02

And everybody yeah, everybody's going through it and it sucks.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:05

And yeah, I've got a job, I've got whatever.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:08

But I'll have that, but I'll have that, I'll have that drink at six o'clock and that'll that'll make me feel good for like 15 minutes. Yeah, and that's it, that'll be worth it. Then then my whole that's my that's my what I look forward to, like all day. And then I'll do the same thing tomorrow, and then the weekend I'll have two drinks. So uh like that's like the that's the true like definition of playing small.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:31

What about you? What would you do?

SPEAKER_00 1:14:34

Well, for me right now, it is it's doing more video and just putting myself out there, being more visible. Because that's definitely been one of my journeys, even before I even started posting on LinkedIn, like the work up to that to start posting, and then how I showed up in the beginning to a year later.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:54

Um, and now it's yeah, I'm just feeling called to to do it in a different way and to s to speak more and to express myself through video and and that expression, creativity.

SPEAKER_05 1:15:09

Yeah, it's the the posting is hard for a lot of people. Excuse me. Um it's just hard, it's hard to put yourself out there and tell your story. And uh that's kind of what I'm working on is I've I've experienced that the summer will be three years on LinkedIn, um, getting ready to write my 500 posts um in the not too distant future. So I spent a lot of time on the platform. I've written a lot, and what I've seen is that most people aren't really telling like their real story. Um, they're holding a significant part of it back because they're afraid, judgment, people see it, what will they think? Embarrassment, shame. Like, uh, I'll leave that part out. But ironically, that's the part, especially if you if you're trying to run a business, you're trying to sign clients, whether it's coaching, consulting, whatever, that typically is what is gonna draw the people that you want to work with or that want to work with you the most are gonna be drawn to those what you think they're quirky or unique or embarrassing or shame, or whatever you're feeling about it, other people are gonna see that as like, oh yeah, I did that too, or I felt that too, or I went through something similar, and then that becomes your different differentiator and the uniqueness that draws into you. If you just keep it on the surface, and that's why I call this podcast the underlayer, because I so much of my so much of my life was lived like on the surface level. And a lot of us, I think, especially publicly and even sometimes privately, um, like we don't we don't let people in, we don't really show them. My other podcast was called The Real You, which is about the mask we wear. Like we just we're pretty, we're pretty good at like trying to mask and hide because we're like, I don't like you. What if this person doesn't like that part of me? Or like what if this is I don't know. Like, there's again, it just we get we get into this like worst case scenario, like what if this person doesn't like me, or what if this company doesn't like me? Um and so when I was working, I would I was rarely ever myself. I was always like fitting in, and then my parents were divorced, so I was like a different person. Like with like all these different factors of my family and my friends in school and working. I was like, I was wearing like 10 masks, exhausting. Um but when you're telling your story online, and it's not like you have to share like every single intimate detail, it's not that, but there is a there is a personal side and there's a uniqueness to all of our journeys that no one else can tell, right? And that's like that's the part, like that's how you stand out, because that's the part that people will be like, oh, I didn't know that. That is fascinating. To me, like leaving such a young age and going and and traveling like that is like that's fascinating to me because I would not have done that. Like I would do it now, I would not have done that, like at that time in my life. Like I would have been too afraid, like I wouldn't have left. Um, so to me, it's like, oh my god, that's tell me more. I want to know more. I want to hear more of those stories. Like that's really fascinating to me. And I've I can't be the only one. So it's like that's that's the the part, not that you, but like you in general, people out there are like you have these things unique to you, but like if you don't share them, there's you know, no one no one will know.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:00

Yeah. No, exactly. And so there's a couple things that I think about there. And one in my experience, too, it was like, okay, well, I have to start showing up because there was a lot of fear around that. So how can I start taking action in a way that feels comfortable and then you evolve? And so now I am more comfortable and I want to share more about who I am and having that personality, but I think you have to start somewhere and then and then let that evolve as you as you grow and you get more comfortable.

SPEAKER_02 1:18:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:35

Cause you can't go, your nervous system wouldn't handle it. Like if I went from zero to just start sharing, yeah, it's I think I would have retreated. I don't know.

SPEAKER_05 1:18:44

Yeah, it's there's a little bit of that. I mean, you do have to start. Well, you have to start somewhere, and you're typically not just gonna be like, all right, here's the whole life story. So yeah, you you ease your way into that. But uh, I think the sooner you can get there the better, because again, and there's and and especially now with all the AI content, and it's just the content, a lot of the content is just boring and it's the same stuff, and you're just like, oh my god. Um but uh yeah, so before I let you go, I want to know more about that. Is that like a painting? Those elephants in the background are are really yeah, I love that. It's super colorful. And um, what is yeah, more I want to hear more about that. What is that?

SPEAKER_00 1:19:17

The painting. So actually, I love elephants. I have elephants all over my house. I really love elephants. And one of my friends, her daughter, who was in high school at the time, she I commissioned her and she painted this for me. And it was yeah, right around when I separated, and my son was young, and anyway, so she painted Oh no, it's beautiful.

SPEAKER_05 1:19:37

So yeah, that's awesome. Um, well, we could probably go another couple hours on this topic, but we'll we'll we'll we'll stop it here. Um I really super appreciate you coming on, sharing part of your journey, uh, your insight. I got a lot out of it. I know the listeners will too. Uh, thank you so much for for your time and energy.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:58

Thank you. I really, I really enjoyed. And yes, I could go on and talk about this forever with you, but uh yeah, I really enjoyed it. Thank you.

Retreats, Portugal, And What’s Next

SPEAKER_05 1:20:05

Thanks. And then if people are interested um finding you, learning more about your work, um, how would what's the best place to reach you? Obviously, you're on LinkedIn, but any other places where they could reach out.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:16

Yeah, so I'm on LinkedIn, my website, jodiewelding.com, and then stay tuned, my YouTube channel will be starting very video video jody coming soon.

SPEAKER_05 1:20:26

And you have to do it now after being on this show. And this podcast is coming out next week. So this is not gonna sit, uh, this is not gonna sit for a while. So this is gonna be out and about, and you're gonna be on YouTube whether you like it or not, because this video is going up. So this is pretty much ripping the band-aid off. Um, and then you're doing the retreat, talk about the retreat.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:42

Yes, I'm super excited. So, this has been a vision of mine for a while. Um in Portugal. I did go on a retreat last year in Spain, and now we're hosting it in Portugal, and for yeah, women in business to just get together and get that clarity and focus on exactly what we talked about. Like, who are you and what are you bringing into this world and what's the impact you want to make? And and how can you have that confidence and courage to create it?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:10

That's amazing. If I was a woman in business, I would have already signed up.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:16

Well, maybe we'll open it up. Maybe we'll open it up next year. But yeah, it is great. It's a great opportunity to get away and and create in Portugal.

SPEAKER_05 1:21:24

Yeah, it sounds amazing. I so I've never gone on a retreat. Um I hear I hear great things, uh, but I don't know actually, I don't know what really happens on them. But they sound they sound good. And so last year, uh there was uh a woman I know, she's in San Francisco, and she was uh doing a retreat in Mexico City. Um and so I I seriously thought about going and I was still running my business and it they were gonna have a lot of smart people there, and it seemed like it was pretty aligned, and they had 11 women, and if I had gone, I was gonna be the only guy. And I couldn't like just I couldn't do it. Like it just didn't.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:58

Really?

SPEAKER_05 1:21:59

I just I I just felt like I would be I don't want to say in the way, but it would be like the only guy, and like I don't know. I just I felt I felt out of place.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:08

Or I felt like it was a weekend retreat, and there was way more women. Um maybe there was like 30 of us, and there was one one male.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:17

So 29 women and one guy.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:19

Yeah. And it was amazing. It wasn't weird, no? Not at all. Not at all.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:24

Interesting. Um yeah, I mean, she wasn't that worried about it. My wife was a little my wife was a little bit like uh yeah, I don't know. Uh like that's awkward and like staying, because it's like you know, it's a small place and just kind of there all the time. I don't know. It just I ended up not going, it didn't work out. Um but anyway, yeah. So um but the Portugal retreat sounds top shelf.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:50

Yeah, well, I'm really looking forward to it. It's gonna be great.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:54

Awesome.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:54

And maybe, yeah, maybe we'll see you in Portugal.

SPEAKER_05 1:22:57

I'll just I'll just be there like on the side. Like, oh Jody's running the retreat. I'm just gonna hang out over here and I'll like mingle when it's you're not retreating.

SPEAKER_00 1:23:05

Yeah, it's time. It's time. All right. Well thank you so much.

SPEAKER_05 1:23:09

Thanks, Jody.