Impressive on Paper, Misaligned in Life: Finding Your Zone of Genius

Maira has spent two decades translating complex ideas into clear frameworks for senior leaders and experts, but her real gift isn’t just strategy. It’s helping high achievers identify the red thread running through their lives and turn it into a premium, sustainable offer.

In this episode, we go beneath the surface of the “zone of genius.” The real Z.O.G.

We unpack why so many smart, capable professionals build businesses around competence instead of calling, and why that almost always leads to burnout. We talk energy audits, intuition vs. data, childhood clues, pruning misaligned services, and how to architect a single signature offer that actually fits who you are.

If you’ve ever felt impressive on paper but misaligned in your day-to-day, this conversation will hit.

Highlights:

• The difference between what you’re good at and what truly energizes you
• Why burnout is often a signal, not a weakness
• How to identify the “red thread” across your career and seasons of life
• The hidden cost of low-ticket offers and scattered product suites
• How to design a signature offer around your one-of-one strengths
• Using intuition alongside data to make cleaner business decisions
• Why pruning services can increase margins, clarity, and momentum

This episode is for founders, coaches, and high performers who are ready to stop building around obligation and start building around alignment.

If it resonates, follow the show, share it with someone who needs it, and leave a quick review to help more curious minds find The Underlayer.

Maira's website: https://humairaakhter.com/

Maira's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/humairaakhter/

The Underlayer YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/@the_under_layer

The Underlayer Podcast Website: https://www.theunderlayerpodcast.com/

David's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-young-mba-indy/

Transcript

Welcome And What Genius Means

SPEAKER_00 0:01

If you've ever felt like you're good at a lot of things but not fully alive for any of them, then this episode is for you. Welcome to the underlayer where the real story lives beneath the surface. This podcast is for midlife professionals who look successful on the outside, but feel misaligned, stuck, or disconnected on the inside. I'm your host, David Young, and today we are digging into one of the most misunderstood concepts in personal and professional growth, your zone of genius, what it is, what it isn't, and why so many high achievers miss it, and what finding it can unlock for you and your life and business. Today I'm joined by Myra, a strategist who helps seasoned solopreneurs, executive coaches, and creative experts turn scattered expertise into a premium, scalable signature offer so their business earns more without relying on constant overwork. She has 20 years of translating complex ideas into frameworks for senior leaders and mission-driven organizations. Myra now brings that same level of expertise and architectural approach to their businesses. In this episode, you'll walk away with three things. First, what your zone of genius actually is and why most people confuse it with what they're just simply good at. Second, the invisible traps that keep high-performing professionals from ever tapping into that genius. And finally, how to architect your business around your genius instead of just your obligations. So if you're feeling stretched thin, if you've outgrown your current chapter or part of your nose, there's a deeper, sharper version of you waiting to emerge. This conversation will help you identify what you do best, why it matters, and how you can finally build the life or business that reflects your true genius. Myra, thanks for coming on the show today. How's it going?

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Oof, I think can we just wrap it up right there?

SPEAKER_00 1:35

Like just that's it. We're done.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

That's it. Like we're done.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

You got every you got everything you need.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

That was phenomenal, really.

SPEAKER_00 1:43

Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Um yeah, I uh thank you for having me on the show. I'm really excited to talk about this.

SPEAKER_00 1:50

No, you're welcome. Um, yeah. So when I think of you, I think of Zone of Genius. That's like the your I feel like that's your brand, that's your identity. Um if that's not what it's supposed to be, you've done a bad job. Um, because that's what I that's what I think of you uh as an expert. So that's why I want to have you on.

SPEAKER_04 2:06

I think no pressure.

SPEAKER_00 2:08

None. I think Zone of Genius is, like I said in the intro, I think it's really misunderstood. I don't even know if I have a great understanding of it myself, because I would describe it as just like yeah, like the things that I'm just like naturally good at or really good at. But I think it's so so much more than that. So just we'll just start at the top. Like just kind of describe like what is when someone says you're working in your zone of genius or you're in your zone of genius, like what does that actually mean?

Defining The Zone Of Genius

SPEAKER_02 2:36

Yeah, such a good question question. I mean, you know, I've read so many books around um zone of genius, and there's so many writings about this. I don't know if you've heard of the book called The Big Leap, right? By Gay Hendrickson.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

I've heard of it, I haven't read it.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

Yeah. Uh and you know, he has his own definition. And there's Laura Garnett, who also talks about Zone of Genius, and everybody has their own definition. And I think where I sort of and and they all, you know, sort of align and they they not necessarily talk about the same kind of way, but I would say that it's the kind of work that just won't leave you alone. It it kind of it's there, it's a nagging feeling where it shows up in every career. You just you keep searching, you keep like there's gotta be more. I can't this can't be it, right? And and you can't quite describe it because people go through uh lots of different career transitions, right? They go through lots of different titles and uh changing jobs, changing niches, right? And then they're still kind of like searching like what is it? And that to me is is the underlying is the underlayer of finding, like wanting to find that through thread. What is the thread that connects it all?

SPEAKER_00 4:09

And can it be multiple? Can that thread be can there be like multiple through lines, or is it always like one main like area and then it has offshoots?

SPEAKER_02 4:20

I think of it as like it's it can be like multiple through lines. It's a it's a one through line that's the one that you feel the most emotionally invested in and connected with the work, the kind of work that you want to do. You will see and if and it doesn't take much if you want to take a keen observation, looking at some of the people that have built a body of work, that they tend to always talk about one thing, but that one thing shoots off with different topics. You know what I mean? It doesn't mean that they can't bounce around, but they are very much a very much married to that core topic that they're talking about, right?

SPEAKER_00 5:08

So yeah, I yeah, that does make sense. So, like when you work with clients, and that's a big part of your work uh one-on-one, where you help them like kind of identify, tap into their zone of genius, and then you kind of build their main signature offer that really utilizes that that zone of genius, right? When they come to you, how often are they just not really aware? Like they think they they're like, oh, this is what I'm good at. So this is what I'm gonna coach or my consulting or what like whatever their whatever their service business is. And then through the work with them, it actually was like that, actually wasn't it. Like how often do you see that disparity?

The Through Line And Body Of Work

SPEAKER_02 5:49

A lot, quite a bit. Yeah, because we form an identity over time, right? And an identity is either caused by subconscious, like we're just doing it because we're good at it. And even maybe you your colleagues or your friends or your people around you have told you you're really good at this. You should keep doing that. But just because they've said it doesn't mean that that's what's going to keep you challenged, right? And it's going to keep you motivated to keep uh not necessarily in the flow, but you feel that good pressure, that good challenge. Like, I wonder what is there, like I wonder how much I can experiment with this to stretch my thinking, right? And oftentimes what I see is that they stop or they kind of like um flattened or they have not necessarily stagnated, but they've become complacent with becoming good at it.

SPEAKER_00 6:55

Because it comes so easily.

SPEAKER_02 6:57

It it either comes so easily and naturally, and it's very and sometimes it can be really confusing because if you're getting if you're getting paid really well to be really good at something, why would you ever want to take on something that is maybe a little more unknown or challenging or out of your scope, right? That's also that also becomes very hard to discern and filter for yourself unless you have somebody else asking you, prompting you with the questions that you've never thought of.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

Right? Like for yeah, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 7:35

Yeah, no, because well, so when I first excuse me, when I first started creating content on LinkedIn, it was the summer of 23, and I'd never done I didn't I'd not done social media before, so I had not written posts or you know, tweets or Instagram posts, anything. So it was very new to me, but I'm a pretty natural storyteller, so I was like, oh, I just have all these stories and I was trying to turn those into content and I was kind of learning as I went. And the coach, the first coach that I hired a couple months later, um, after maybe a month of working with her, she was like, Writing content is like you're in you're working in your zone of genius when you write content. That's what she said to me. And like I had never that had never even occurred to me. Like I was like, oh, I okay. Like I just I just do it. She was like, No, no, no. She was like, You do it in a different way. Most people can't do that. Um, you can tell stories the way you write, the way it comes out. Like I because I was getting pretty decent engagement. I had you know like four or five hundred followers at that time. She was like, people are coming back, they want to see what you're writing. She was like, that's just not normal for most LinkedIn creators. Like they write stuff and no one sees it, and then they keep writing and no one still sees it. And it takes like a really long time to find you. She's like, people have found your stuff pretty early and they're coming back, which means they like are interested in what you're saying. She was like, so that's like not normal. So like what does that what does that mean to you? Like, just was it the storytelling aspect that I was good at and then I was able to write it? Was it the writing? Like I never really like I knew what she meant, but I I didn't know what to do with it.

Good At vs. Truly Lit Up

SPEAKER_02 9:04

Yeah. And so there's two things, right? One, now, if we're talking from a business perspective, right? Because that's how I uh I mean, I'm marrying the concepts of zone of genius. Um now, there might be a career strategist who talks about zone of genius. That's different than that's persons helping them find their zone of genius and find, you know, helping them navigate through career change, right? But for me, from a business standpoint, if we are trying to commercialize something from an outside how the outside market sees you, right? And if you're if you're enjoying and writing and you're storytelling and there is a part that we're like, it just comes naturally to you, right? But there's an aspect where it's still doesn't quite differentiate you because how many people are doing storytelling maybe just as much or just as good, right? So what is the what is the true genius and the flavor, the unique flavor that comes through David that's not that I'm not seeing within the ingredients that's been cooked together? Do you know what I mean? So it's not about taking pieces of you and just like putting things apart, but like how am I integrating all of that to create the zone of genius that no one else is able to replicate that?

SPEAKER_00 10:34

Yeah, kind of your like one, your one of one proposition, so to speak.

SPEAKER_02 10:39

Yeah, people talk about category of one or you know, like your uh unique value proposition kind of thing. But for me, it's kind of like um it's your method to madness, your your ingredients that no one is able to, like it may it may be a grandma recipe that you make, but then it's not gonna be the same meal that you cook every time. You know what I mean? Because it's your fl your spin has in there in you know, the way you create the ingredients and collect the ingredients. So that's why I think that it's something that people oftentimes what I see is that they either haven't taken the time to really explore it, or they've just taken whatever is there to create something that, okay, that's that's that's what I do.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Yeah. How much personal how much do you think personality plays a factor? Because obviously if we're trying to differentiate and we all have different personalities and the way we life experiences and the way we view things and all of that. So if it's if we're talking about a business and an offer, like how and you see this a lot, like in your in your content, like be yourself and let your personality shine through, like all that kind of stuff. Like how much do you think that plays when you're if you're saying you're close to your zone of genius, then how much personality do you think then also has to be layered in in order for it to really like separate?

SPEAKER_02 12:04

Yeah, I this is a really tricky question and a very good one. And I'll tell you because there's so many personality assessments out there, right? You've taken probably one, right? You know, there's some there's you know, uh uh uh what is it called? There's Enneagram, and there's you know, uh I forget what it is.

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Myers Briggs, Clifton, Myers Briggs, oh my god, Clifton.

SPEAKER_02 12:32

Oh my god. Like if you were to analyze all that data I have, holy shit, like sorry, I'm swearing.

SPEAKER_04 12:41

It's okay.

Market Differentiation And Flavor

SPEAKER_02 12:44

And uh I'm just going, like, how do you how do you make sense out of it? All of that, right? So I'm an INFG J or whatever, right? And then playing that characteristic, does that mean I say no to this job? Does that mean I notice say no to that project? To me, I play a lot of intuition in my role. So there's a tapping into your intuitiveness, and I know it sounds woo-woo, but it's really not. Like if you think about it, your your gut is pretty strong. And the times when you haven't listened to your gut, you probably said, Ah man, I should have listened. I knew you knew that was gonna happen, but you didn't listen. Yeah, because your mind took over. Whatever that was.

SPEAKER_00 13:31

That's like the story of my life. That could be the title of my book.

SPEAKER_02 13:34

Right. That's what I'm saying. That like if we had uh an intelligent way to and Chat GPT can do that, if you have an intelligent way to interpret your own gut readings, then you would be able to make decisions better. But we we're not trained, we're not taught to listen to our gut.

SPEAKER_00 14:00

Yeah, I mean it's well you they'll s they tell yeah, they they definitely don't teach it, they'll say it. Yes. So it's like, oh, like go with your instinct, but then all the other out all the other noise distractions is all cerebral, logical thought, analyzing, like so it's the ratio is so heavily slanted that even though this is my experience, like even though I'll feel something inside and I'm like, I know this is right or wrong, it goes both ways, but then you have just it's just so much, and then you're like, oh well, okay, like I'll I'll give it a shot. And then it's never right. You're like, oh, I should have just listened, and then you just repeat that. Um so I think so. What's interesting about that is going say talking about like not being taught. I don't I don't ever remember hearing about like zone of genius, definitely not in school. Um definitely not in college. And I don't even remember really through my most of my corporate career, I don't I don't I just don't remember that term. Like, is it how new is that term? And like, do you think it would be something that we could start incorporating earlier so people started to think about it earlier?

SPEAKER_02 15:10

Yes. You know, I I that's uh again, uh you're bringing up bringing up some really good points here because you it's true. I haven't heard the term zone of genius being planted, implanted even at an early age, right? Um I I certainly didn't. You know, I if somebody came to me and said, Are you working in your zone of genius? I'd be like, What?

SPEAKER_04 15:36

What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 15:38

Yeah, I'm like, I'm just doing my work. I mean, I'm paying my bills. Is that is that sufficient?

SPEAKER_04 15:44

Right.

SPEAKER_02 15:45

Um, but uh, you know, now that you raise the question, I I honestly haven't really looked into it, but I do know that people are more conscious and talking about zone of genius in a roundabout way, but not so much like you know, you definitely should be in your zone of genius when you launch a business.

SPEAKER_04 16:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

You would say you would think that's duh. Like that is so obvious, right? But it's not. Right. The first thing one people do is like, what will make you money the fastest? Launch something that will make you the fastest money.

Intuition, Personality, And Fit

SPEAKER_00 16:23

Well, I yeah, that also describes me because my first offer was around LinkedIn, like helping people with LinkedIn and storytelling and writing content because like I was good at it. Right. And I I did make some money. I I signed clients, like a decent number of clients, like within a two or three months. So like it it was working on paper. The problem was it was not aligned with what I really wanted to be doing. So I burnt out fairly quickly. And then two, what I learned is I couldn't teach people the way that I was doing content. It wasn't teachable. Like it was just kind of the way that I did it. It was just the way that I processed stories, thought about stories, the way that I wrote. Like I I could do it for people, but I could not teach them what I was doing. Like it just I just couldn't. Um so it's so like that gets back to our like layers point. Like it isn't necessarily, well, you're good at that, so that's that's your business, like maybe. But there's there's a lot of other there's a lot of other, and a lot of it's psychological um motivation, like you said, like if it's if you're gonna launch it in three months later, you're like, eh, this is this isn't for me. That's obviously not sustainable.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Something you mentioned, and I want to uh point that out. You said something about burnout, right? So this is what happens when people are really good at something, but they've kind of lost the flame at certain t point, right? They've kind of lost that spark. To me, that's also a sign, indication of that that you haven't quite hit your zone of genius yet. Okay, if the energy is not now, I'm not saying that I don't burn out. I often of course I do as a solopreneur. Are you kidding? Like you're wearing different hats every day, yeah, right? Uh accounting, uh you know, writing newsletters, uh operations, things like that, right? That's another reason why I talk about signature offer and things like that. But we'll come back to that. But the misalignment and the energy is a big one because if you can't sustain your energy, I am getting burned out, but guess what? I am next day waking up with a fresh energy again, and it's uh it's empty. The tank is uh, you know, ready to be loaded again.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

It comes back much more quickly, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:53

It comes back, so you can see that people who are like giving speaking on the stage, right? They're doing 17, 16 hour talks. How are they even able to sustain that? Yeah, it's insane. You know, Brennan Brochard is one of them. He's getting up there and talking for about performance and things like that for hours, right? Hey, he's burned out, but he comes back the next day and he's swinging right back.

SPEAKER_00 19:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:23

Right? So that's the difference.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

Yeah, I think the energy component's a big one, and I don't think that's talked a lot about. Um, I'm trying to do a lot more of that, you know, these last several months, um, as I've kind of been shifting. I've been really trying to pay attention to my energy and like the projects I'm working on or things I'm working on. I really ask myself, like, as I'm doing it, like, do I really want to be doing this? Am I looking forward to doing this? Am I happy when it's over? Like you said, you take a break next day. Am I trying, am I putting it off? Like, I don't really want to do that, or am I diving right back in and really trying to be much more cognizant of that? Because I think that's a big indicator. It kind of ties into the gut and intuition because your energy typically will not lie to you nearly as much as your mind will.

SPEAKER_03 20:10

Oh no.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

So it's hard to fake that. So um I think that's important. And I did not, like, again, going back as I was a kid and then going to school, like no one ever talked, no one ever said, like, well, really pay attention to your energy here. Like that just literally never happened. It was just like you have skills or talents, or what are you interested in, and then boom, that's like go do that, and then get a job, and hopefully you can use some of those. But if you can't, don't don't worry about it, just grind it out for 50 years. You'll be fine. Like that was like that was the plan.

SPEAKER_02 20:41

That's what most people do.

SPEAKER_00 20:42

Correct.

Energy As A Compass

SPEAKER_02 20:44

Right. Yeah. Uh and see, uh it's so hard to again. I'm gonna say this again, unless you have someone to mirror those behavior and the patterns that are emerging out of those, you know, your your background and your stories and things that that's happening to you, it's so hard to do this for yourself. Yeah, you almost feel like, yes, you absolutely need someone to hold that mirror for you for you so you can start to answer the questions like, oh wait, I haven't thought of that. There's things that I will go through sessions with my clients, they've said things, and I'm like, wait, hold on a second, but do you but do you remember? Do you know what you just said? And I will remind them but they don't have a cognitive, they they don't have that conscious way of stopping themselves. And you know what I mean? It's just uh it's just human. We're not built to stop ourselves in the track, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Yeah, and I think that kind of gets into why so many people can go honestly, they go their whole lives and never really get there. Like never really tap into it because they don't either take the time or they don't work with the right person or it just like doesn't occur to them. And so you you can just miss out, um, which is sad, but I think it's true for so many.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

Yeah, unfortunately, yes. And and not to mention the over the sheer overwhelm of draining in I I don't know if you saw my post carousel on one of those crazy posts about I wanted to I don't know if I did a good job, but all I wanted to say is that like the information that's coming at us today at a speed and now coupled with AI and everything, it's just I can't we can't keep up anymore.

SPEAKER_00 22:46

No, it's impossible. It's just overwhelming.

SPEAKER_02 22:50

It's too much, you know? And so for me, it's like, okay, I just want to find a quiet corner, a quiet space, sit there, and just in an old-fashioned way, maybe just write a few things.

SPEAKER_00 23:05

Yeah, I think I think a lot of us, if we're paying attention, are are usually looking for ways to slow it down, get away from the get away from the noise, um, reading, writing, being outside, exercising, garden, yard work, whatever. Um, just not plugged in, right? And I think that's when most of us get our best ideas, right? Taking a shower, walking the dog, um, driving without sound. Like when your mind's not engaged, then it has a it has a chance to settle, relax, and then that's when that's when ideas come to you. But you know, when you're on two computers and looking at your phone and listening to something and doing something else, like you're not gonna get a lot of the ideas aren't coming then.

SPEAKER_02 23:49

And not only that, like I think, you know, we are all suffering from the recycled ideas, right? Like, oh wait, I've seen that before, I've heard that before, you know. And I think part of it is also that people are not you know, again, I'll go back to what we talked about, that they're not taking enough time to slow down, pause, and retrack what they're building.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Yeah, you know. So what do you think uh in your client experience, what has been what has been the biggest where someone came to you and they were like, this is what I'm doing, this is what I wanted to do, and at the end of your work, like what do you think was like the big it was the totally not totally different, but like the biggest gulf between they started here and they ended up here?

SPEAKER_02 24:36

Yeah, so it changed uh after a while. I will say that my avatar, you know, whatever you call client avatar, uh the profile has been elevated uh uh, you know, it has changed over over the years. But right now, uh the people that I'm really interested in working with, that they already have built a body of work. They've already created um you know products, whether it's one-on-one or some group offerings and a mastermind and things like that. What I see is that when I ask, I have a I have an exercise actually that I take them through. And I take and I have them write down their percentages of what things that actually is giving them energy versus what's draining them.

SPEAKER_04 25:26

Yeah.

Why We Miss Genius In School And Work

SPEAKER_02 25:27

And it's an exercise, unless you sit down and you actually kind of write it down and they go gone through it, you'll be like, oh wow, I'm only spending one percent here where I should be spending 80% of my time here.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Yeah. Well, I just don't I don't think anyone does that. I I had never even thought about that until I read the book uh Design Your Life. It was like 2017, 2018. And they had yeah, it's more like career-based, but part of one of the exercises in the book was similar, where it's like look at your job and then just document like the way you spend your time, and then and then go back and assign like yay or nay to energy, energy drainer or energy giver, and then kind of tally it up. And for me in that role, it was like two percent energy give and ninety-eight percent like energy drain. I was like, maybe this is the wrong role.

SPEAKER_02 26:19

Oh my god, you will I mean you you it it can lie to you. You it's right there staring at you, and now you have to decide what you're gonna do with that information, right?

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Grind it out for another couple years. Um so so when you so when you've done that with your clients and they've done probably something similar to what I did, except for their business, and they realize like, oh wow, I'm doing all of these things because I thought I had to to keep my business going. And now that I'm looking at it, I realize that you know, 50, 60, maybe even 75% of my time is is draining my energy. So then then what? Tell them to quit. So you you have them just cut out, you you realign and cut the energy drainers out. Right.

SPEAKER_02 27:05

Yeah. There's no there's no middle ground for me when I I mean, maybe I'm too har you know too direct in that, but I don't I mean, if it's an agency that's not making you money, you're running an agency, you're pouring more money and more energy into hiring and firing and tr trying to run a team and all that, and you're not so good at it, maybe that's not meant for you. And it's a very hard pill to swallow for a lot of people. Like, oh my god, I spent all these years, all these time, all this time to build this up, and now you're telling me to let go. Yeah. Zone of genius is one of the biggest things is no knowing and finally realizing what it's time to let go.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Cutting it. Yeah, the sunk cost.

SPEAKER_02 27:52

Cutting it. It's it's not only sunk cost, it's like it's an emotional cost. And it's an emotional labor that most people don't think about. Right. So I only have one product and one. And that's been going on for the last three years. And if I ever build you know, uh break into that core product into multiple products, whether it becomes a course or a thing, it'll be just that one product. That's it.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Yeah. Yeah, you can definitely get you can spread yourself too thin for sure. Um and that's kind of the that's perpetuated, I think, in the part of it is the multiple income stream, because you see that a lot, you know, don't have one. Yeah, right. So you you need to have three or five or seven and don't rely on anyone. If one goes away or goes down, you've got the others. Like what which I find I get the logic, but I think you can't I think you can get too diversified, and then you're you're either just not able to give energy, even if it does energize you, you just simply can't because you're just you know, there's only so much you can do. Um or it's not, and then it's just draining, and then it becomes it doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Now I will say it might be different if you're a serial entrepreneur, yeah, somebody who has launched not just one startup, but 50 startups, and you have just raised so much capital, you just know right which products to that which product will take off in the marketplace, right? That's different. But most experts, consultants who have 20 decades of corporate experience, I do not suggest them to come and enter in the market with a devalued product. Yeah. Right? A low-ticket offer. That's going to drain not just your energy, it's gonna drain your bank, it's gonna drain your uh expenses, everything.

SPEAKER_00 29:53

Yeah, that's I made that mistake too. Well, I think we're just covering most of the mistakes I made. Um this is making me feel good. Um I'm sorry. It's good, it's fine.

Pruning Offers And Saying No

SPEAKER_01 30:03

Uh we'll come back to the good parts. I promise.

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Um I thought it was easier to sell low ticket. Like I wanted people to say yes. So I intentionally priced it low. And then even when I got clients, I can't you know I did raise the prices, but I didn't raise them by like that much because I was still worried that that I would they people would stop saying yes, and I I wanted them to say yes. Like I wanted I wanted them to pay me, and I wanted even if it was lower dollar, I was willing to take the lower dollar because I wanted I wanted the money and I wanted clients, which was fine. It wasn't necessarily wrong, but it isn't sustainable because then I was doing a lot of work and I had a lot of clients and wasn't making a lot of money, and then you're like, Oh, well, okay, I could have just signed one high-ticket client and made more money and then done less work. That would have made more sense. But you don't think about that at the beginning, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

Most most You know, but I I can I tell you, David, uh, first of all, you this is so common that you should not feel bad about it because it's most experts, I think most consultants start out that way. Yeah, even I did. And I think, well, I shouldn't say that. My first program, my first product was five thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Nice.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

I did manage to sell a high ticket from the very beginning, and maybe that's why I'm jaded. I'm I'm so against it, because you know, I've tried selling low-cost product. Here's the funny thing. I've tried selling low-tiered products, and it never went well. It never went well.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

I think it's harder.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

It's so much harder. It's so much harder.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

It's a different buyer. It's you still have to put the same amount of energy in selling and promoting it. Yeah, it's like if you're gonna go through all that, you might as well get a$5,000 yes instead of a$500 yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:57

Yeah, and I don't know, but I I'm not gonna lie to you. It was tempting though. Oh, should I turn this into a course, sell a 197 product, you know, and then um I also went through a whole phase of trying to learn from Russell Brunson how to set up click funnels and do upsells and downsells and try to get people to to buy into this, you know, webinars and this. I spent so much time doing this crap that and that's the the I you know, I I don't know how much we have time to cover my story, but that's really how it started. That's where my breakthrough was, where I'm like, if I were to walk away tomorrow, my business will collapse. I'm not building a system. I'm not I'm not creating a system, I'm creating products that relies on me. Right? And that is a foundational problem for a lot of entrepreneurs.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

And is that when you get into the zone of genius, is that also then helping them create the systems that allow I guess like the the genius to perform at its like most consistent or I don't know what the right word is, but like at its smoothest? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 33:20

Yeah, so we my philosophy is that if you're gonna find once we kind of aligned the zone of genius, right, then we gotta figure out what is the signature product that you're going to you're going to wrap your entire business model around. Okay. We're not gonna have a business model where you have like membership model and this and that. If you can't sustain it, and if you don't have the stamina as an entrepreneur, as a solopreneur to kind of keep up with that, then my question is then why are you doing it?

SPEAKER_04 33:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

Is it because somebody you saw somebody else do it, or is it because you think that that's what's gonna give you the most money?

SPEAKER_00 34:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:05

Right?

High Ticket, Low Ticket, And Focus

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Well, I definitely think there's a lot of looking at what other people are doing and then like it seems to be working for them. So like I'll I'll give that a spin. I think you see that a lot with memberships communities, that's very popular. Uh at least it was, I think it still is, but you're like, oh, well, I can charge$29,$49, whatever dollars a month, and I'll get certain signups, and then that's recurring revenue, which is yes, but there's a ton of work. Um there's a ton of people, people coming in and out. So you're signing new people and you have to have meetings. There has to be value of what they're paying for, and it's like so. Yeah, it's great if you want to do that. But like, like you said, like that can't just be like a five percent or like, oh, I'll also start this community. Like, if you could do the community, that's pretty much it. Like that's your that's your thing. So, but you don't we don't think about that because we're just like, oh, that's just another way I can make some money, I can get, you know, whatever. So um it's easy to get distracted. And I think that's why the zone of genius is important because I think if you stay true to the energy and the genius, I think you would realize pretty quickly, like, oh, that community is not a great idea, or that$49 product, it's not a great idea. Like it starts to become make a lot more sense and be much easier, like you said earlier, like to just say no and be like, no, I don't want to do that.

SPEAKER_02 35:20

Right. And and again, it goes back to the DNA, the identity of the founder, right? If I go through the extraction, we we call it the excavation process of their stories and what they've done historically. And if I see the historical patterns have been like, they're not someone who is really good at building bringing community or bringing people together. It's not their true strength. Then why go through that route? Just because it looks good, yeah. Right? Like I personally wouldn't want to create a circle platform and try to like that's just not me with a hundred thousand people in it and trying to navigate what lessons to drop, modules to drop. There's some people who are awesome at it.

SPEAKER_00 36:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:06

Great, let them do it. You know?

SPEAKER_00 36:08

I think if you had a hundred thousand members, I think you would change your mind, but that's just me.

SPEAKER_02 36:12

It might, I might, yeah. I might do it, but you know, I just don't want to do it.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

If you were making two million a month, I think you'd be like, all right, I'll figure this out.

SPEAKER_02 36:22

Well, yes. Only caveat is as long as I have time to do the things that I love doing, you know. Yeah. That would be fine with me. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 36:33

I would just do it for a year and take the money and then just tap out. Um so what uh yeah. So what do you think then? What do you think holds so many of us back then from ever identifying it? You think it's one thing or is it society or don't find the right coach or you never even know that it exists? Like what do you think?

SPEAKER_02 36:55

It's a combination of all of those. I mean, you know, I think one uh the famous phrase which I hate is you don't know what you don't know. But then I think also it's like people, you know, when you watch your kids, you know, they're not thinking other than just like they're just so strongly curious about what they want to explore, right? And I think we lose that spark of curiosity as we grow into adulthood.

unknown 37:28

Right?

Systems, Signature Offers, And Scale

SPEAKER_00 37:29

Because we're forced to make choices. We're forced to start making choices and get into lanes and like there is they they don't really allow, I'm seeing it now, my kids are 16 and 11, but like with my 16-year-old, and he's already looking at class, he's a sophomore at the high school, and so he's already looking at classes for his junior year, and he's even with his counselor like looking at senior year classes too. But they really I don't know, it's it's a little better now than when I was in school. It has it has gotten better, but they still really you really have to pick. Um, there's not a ton of options, and then you kind of get I mean when you're 16, you don't know what you most people have no idea like what you want to do. You might have you have interest, or you'd be like, I'm I'm good at this or I like this. But in terms of like a vocation, whether it's a business or a traditional career, you really have like my 16-year-old could not articulate like a career plan right now. Like he he could tell you, like, I like X or I would think I could do this, but he couldn't be like, Oh, well, uh my zone of genius or I'm my area of in expertise is this, and I will then and he would not be able to extrapolate that out. Like he just can't, and I think most most 16-year-olds can't.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

Most people can't. You start, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:38

You start to really it starts to get really narrow. Like with my 11-year-old, it's different. It's still like nobody he's in the sixth grade, nobody really cares, he's not thinking about work, so it's like do whatever. But it starts, it really starts to narrow, and then by the time you get to college, like you have to pick a major, which also doesn't make any sense as a freshman or even a sophomore. Like, how do you know? Right. How do you know? Like, why not just take a bunch of classes and see like again, measure your energy, measure what interests you, what are you good at, and then pick. But no, like your first day, it's like you're gonna major in biology, you're gonna major in you know English or business, whatever. But it's it's so it's weird. But anyway, so to me, it's like narrower and narrower and narrow, and then you graduate, you gotta get a job, and now it's super narrow. Like if you get a job in marketing, that's it. Like you're you're you're not spending any other time other than on your marketing job. Well, what what if that isn't it? But then what? Right, right. Then you have to do it on then you have to do it like at night on the weekends. Anyway, so I think I I 100% agree that there are it starts really wide, curiosity and kids, and you just letting them explore and play, and that's how they learn, but uh it goes away like it goes away really quickly, and I think that's a I think that's a real problem.

SPEAKER_02 39:49

Yeah, I mean, look at it, like you know, for me personally, and I it was a natural, like, oh, I went to design school, so what do you do? Okay, so the natural progression would be to become a graphic designer. So I went in graphic designer, did that, but then that job became very much like there's no it just pretty much dead end, you know, a corporate dead end. There's no growth, it's stall, and to me that was that should have been the sign, like get out of there, like as fast as possible, and try to explore something that but I was always I always loved the idea of having a business. For some reason, I loved business. I started MLM marketing, I started doing all kinds of shit like that doesn't really quite you know uh quite uh fit the mold, but I did it anyway because I was interested in building something, creating something. Well it's curiosity you're trying to figure it out, right? Yeah, yeah. Um but then again, that the question is like it's is if I start like if if graphic design, if this is it, you know, what what else is there? Right for me, uh it just turned into more curiosity of like I wonder what if I what if what if I can take my existing skills that I had sitting down with CEOs and executives and high-level thinkers and people who are subject matter experts? You know, I'm used to like somebody giving them a chicken drawings and turning them into something, you know. And that's always been my strength. Like I have no I have no idea how it comes, but it does. Always been able to bring out the vision that they had and come to life, right? And that's something that, you know, how do you translate that into a product? That is also something that many people get lost, you know. Like, okay, yeah, I have these skills, but how do you turn that into a viable product?

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Yeah, but I mean, are you talking product in terms of service or product or like an actual product like an offer?

Curiosity, Overload, And Original Ideas

SPEAKER_02 41:59

I I call it like anybody who has a business, it's not necessarily a physical product, but it's a you know, it's still something, it's still a product at the end of the day.

SPEAKER_00 42:08

Yeah, I think that's one of the hardest things to do is to take your expertise, whatever it is, and then package it in a way, present it in a way, describe it in a way that really works not only for you in terms of using your this skill set, this expertise, but then also in helping solve the problem. Because typically, like people are buying from you because they they're they're stuck or they're not making progress or they don't know what to do, but they're there's some underlying issue of solving something. You have to solve something. And I think that's for me, but I think a lot of people where it's like, all right, I'm good at this, I have all these skills, whatever. But like, what am I actually really solving? Like, what am I actually helping them with? And I think that's very difficult to articulate and and then like you're talking about, put into then like a package, a product, an offer, whatever you want to call it, that then you sell because it's there's like a I don't know, there's there's something missing. There's like lost in translation or something.

SPEAKER_02 43:12

Of course, yeah. And it's uh and the more expertise you, you know, you build over time, the harder it gets because you don't know which one to distill and which one to keep and which one to, you know, and it's not for me, it's not necessarily the answer of like, oh, disregard these things and just do that one thing. For me, it's like, okay, what are the parts of you that's built worth, you know, it's built working around and creating something that's a container that will grow with you over time.

SPEAKER_04 43:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:46

And again, not many people spend the time to do that.

SPEAKER_00 43:50

Yeah, I mean, I think your offer in itself is unique. Um, because I I don't I don't know of another like zone of genius offer and like tap into your zone of genius and build it into your offer. I don't I mean maybe somebody else has that. I don't you you might know but I've never excuse me I've never I've never seen that. I've seen a lot of ghostwriting I've seen a lot of just coaching. That's that's everywhere but like your your offer stands out.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

I mean, you know, again it's the gap that I've been noticing, right? Everyone's talking about how to package your expertise, how to sell your expertise, how to monetize your expertise, right? But those things are easy to talk about. I wouldn't I shouldn't say easy to talk about, but again, it's only touching taking your what you've done in your previous job or in the previous previous previous job, right?

SPEAKER_04 44:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:46

But it's not considering your entire timeline. It's not considering the things that you've done even as a child.

SPEAKER_04 44:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

Right. And so those are some of the things that I tap into. I go all the way back to your childhood.

SPEAKER_00 45:01

Like when I wanted to be Bob Cossus and talk about sports for a living.

SPEAKER_02 45:04

I'm serious. Like there's a reason why you're so such a good host. Maybe there's something there. I don't know. We haven't explored it yet.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

That's true.

SPEAKER_02 45:14

Right?

SPEAKER_00 45:14

Uh this is true. Um that we could do a whole we could do a whole episode on that but we won't do that right now. Yes. Um but I will off when this is over I'll I will share a quick story before I let you go. Anyway so as we wrap this up excuse me any someone's out there listening and they're this resonates and they're like okay like I I don't know what my zone of genius is. I I might know what I'm good at. I might know what I'm interested in but I don't I don't know what else to do. Like what would be like one or two things that would start to move them towards like identifying it or at least getting closer like to it. They're like I want to know what my zone of genius is or at least could be yeah so I am working on a I've I've been saying that for a while.

Packaging Expertise Into A One-Of-One

SPEAKER_02 46:00

Now I really need to launch it with a workshop around that you know finding your I don't know if I'm going to call it finding your zone of genius or what I haven't quite settled on it. But it the idea is that I want every founder who's listening to this or a solopreneur who has done tons of work different you know uh serve different types of people uh clients and whatnot I want you to write down your story and when I and I put them in a story of their origin their origin story and when you write down your origin story you're basically tapping into uh early childhood you're tapping into your turning points the biggest turning points and then there's uh memories that they just like so there's a um there's something happening in your life where that's where you start to like oh shit that's where things have started to take shape and everyone I if I don't care who you are there's I've talked to so many people and it's like if you write down you things will come up I know that for sure and you start to look at I call it the red thread what is the red thread that is running through all those stories that's been telling you a theme that's emerging from that a common theme. For some of them example like for me it's always been it's always been seeking for acceptance seeking approval and never feeling good enough anything I did. I don't know and that was part of the thing that why people ask me like why this zone of genius because I never felt genius my entire life I never thought I had the genius. But genius is not about an IQ or how smart you are right right it's the kind of like it it it's an inner some sort of inner awakening in a calling that like I said it won't leave you alone. Right and that lack of acceptance is something that I can give somebody without zero like I will never run out of it. Right? It's it's tied it's connected to a purpose and when you find that through thread that's when we can start to think about how does that connect to the business world? How does that shape and how does that you know we can talk about all those things.

SPEAKER_00 48:44

But that start there yeah no I think that's a great exercise I did something a a little different but similar where I was looking back I was draw it was like a timeline and I was drawing on the timeline like ups and downs and highs and lows and turning points and that that type of stuff. So it's a little different but it did it did cause me to look at it kind of at a macro level where you're looking almost like you're looking down like at your life.

SPEAKER_02 49:08

Yeah it's a map like it's almost look like you're looking at a map.

SPEAKER_00 49:11

Yeah exactly and you're right you don't typically do that because you're like in it but you don't typically put it like away from you where you're like now I'm seeing it. So I honestly the biggest thing that jumped out was how short like you know it was like you know zero birth and then my current age 50 and then we did decades and I was like oh like it's so short it's so small like it's so tiny. Even in the longest of lives right like we're here for like a split second when you consider like the whole right all of it. And so I was like oh like I'm I'm run and I'm running out of time. Like I'm not getting any younger so like why I really have to like step on it.

SPEAKER_01 49:49

Did it depress you?

Childhood Clues And Origin Stories

SPEAKER_00 49:51

It wasn't it wasn't necessarily depressing but it was just I don't know it was just something about it was like ah I gotta go. Like it's it goes fast. But no I think that's a I I really love the way you said that about the genius and we think of it as like smart like Einstein or something. And there's first of all there's lots of different levels and types of genius. It isn't always just right IQ there's lots of different types of intelligence and all of that stuff. But um yeah that feeling of like where you're like you said it won't leave you alone it's a it comes through it's a through thread red line a through line whatever you want to call it like it just it permeates through everything. And if you do that exercise like you're talking about kind of writing it down or it's a map or both or something similar like that's what you're looking for. And I think that's I think that's a great place to start um when you're when you're trying to like you know search and and figure out something.

SPEAKER_02 50:42

Yeah because even if we let's say we create an offer that emerges from all those threat you know the true thread right uh it can it can change in terms of like it can be iterative uh throughout the years and your ICP might even change that's okay but your core theme doesn't change right your purpose doesn't change and that's the part that I'm trying to tell people that like if you start there then you don't you know that's when you stop worrying about what niche am I gonna go in what this and well how am I gonna change you know what if the market changes who cares right my offer my product doesn't change yeah my offer doesn't change your story and through line isn't gonna change no right so that's the most constant thing that I can rely on. Yeah right so anyway that's so that's the spiel that I if I anybody wants to challenge me on that I'm like bring it on let's do it love it.

SPEAKER_00 51:46

Um if people are interested in learning more about working with you or just about your work what's the easiest way for them to get in touch or to find uh to find you unfortunately I don't have a lead magnet so I am the lead magnet so contact I I am at yeah contact me I am the lead magnet so if you want to have a candid conversation I'm gonna and if you like the conversation that like we had I you I hope that you can tell that I'm as transparent as I can be and if I can work with you I'll tell you like we're not ready to work together but at the very least to have a conversation where I could at least tell you that like okay yeah uh I can see the problem and I can help you with that or you know um or take a course$97 course. Got it. Um well thanks for listening uh to this episode of the underlayer where the real story lives if this episode resonated please follow rate and subscribe so you never miss a new conversation or you can share with a friend who you feel like uh might get something out of it. Uh Myra, really appreciate coming on and all of your great insight. Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_02 52:56

Thank you so much. I loved it