The Underlayer: Fear, Clarity & Personal Growth for Mid-Life Professionals

The Quiet Pull for Something More (And Why High Performers Ignore It)

• David Young | Allison Ditmer • Episode 8

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In this episode of The Underlayer, host David Young sits down with LinkedIn strategist and writer Allison Ditmer to explore the quiet pull for something more, and what happens when successful careers stop matching who we’re becoming.

Allison shares her journey from behind-the-scenes corporate marketer to visible creator and business owner, unpacking the emotional signals that pushed her toward reinvention. Together, David and Allison examine how identity shifts, fear, and misalignment often surface long before people make a career change, and why so many high performers ignore those signals for years.

This episode explores: What to do about that persistent whisper for “more.” 

If you’re a mid-career professional or solopreneur navigating uncertainty, visibility, or the discomfort of putting yourself out there, this conversation will help you rethink branding, content, and career growth, not as tactics, but as expressions of alignment.


Topics covered:

• The emotional signs it’s time for a career shift
 • Leaving corporate and the identity shock that follows
 • Building a clear, credible personal brand on LinkedIn
 • Why emotional connection matters more than clever content
 • Writing in public as a path to authority and trust
 • Newsletters as a long-term relationship-building tool
 • The realities of solopreneurship: decision fatigue, sales discomfort, and resilience
 • Why many service professionals eventually move toward scalable creator models

This episode is an invitation to listen more closely to what your discomfort is telling you, and to build a career, brand, and body of work that actually fits the season you’re in.


Allison's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/allisonditmer/

Allison's Website: allisonditmer.com



The Underlayer YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/@the_under_layer

The Underlayer Podcast Website: https://www.theunderlayerpodcast.com/

David's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-young-mba-indy/

SPEAKER_00:

If you've ever felt the quiet pull for something more, even after building a successful career, this episode is for you. Welcome to the underlayer where the real story lives beneath the surface. This podcast is for midlife professionals who look successful on the outside but feel misaligned, stuck, or disconnected on the inside. I'm your host, David Young, and today we are pulling apart the deeper patterns behind career shifts, identity, and reinvention with Allison Dittmer, a LinkedIn content strategist and writer who helps experienced founders, CEOs, and fractional executives build authority and generate clients through strategic, audience obsessed content. With over 15 years of corporate marketing experience, Allison now partners with business owners to clarify their positioning, optimize their LinkedIn presence, and turn thoughtful content into real conversations and revenue. In this episode, you will learn at least these three things, hopefully more, but definitely these three. First, what the call for something more actually feels like and why so many high performers ignore it for years. Allison shares the real internal signals that told her it was time to leave corporate and step into a business that fully matched her strengths and values. Second, how to build a personal brand on LinkedIn that reflects the leader you've already become. You'll hear the mistakes most seasoned professionals make when they try to show up online, and how clarity, consistency, and positioning turn a profile into a revenue-generating asset. And finally, what no one tells you about becoming a solopreneur, from identity shifts to decision fatigue and visibility fears, Allison breaks down the emotional and strategic challenges that come with building a business on your own. If a if you feel a career chapter closing, a new one pulling, or an inner voice that says you are made for more, this conversation conversation will give you clarity, confidence, and language for your next move. Allison, thanks so much for joining me today.

SPEAKER_02:

Hello, hello, David. I'm so happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, you know, we've uh been in uh about two years, I think, a couple years almost. And you live in Columbus, Ohio, where I used to live, and I think that's where we uh were talking about earlier, kind of we first kind of bonded. Uh I know that area pretty well, uh, at least from my time there. So yeah, thanks for coming on. You and I uh similar journeys in terms of our time frame. I think you were might have maybe a little ahead of me. I started in the summer of 23. Uh, I know you're right around that time uh in terms of kind of looking at something different and creating content on LinkedIn and then eventually turning it uh into a business. So a lot of ground for us to cover. Um but yeah, we can start with kind of like what you were thinking about as you as you were thinking about leaving and and thinking about doing something, you know, not the traditional way.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, you know, I spent 15 years, um, as you said, in the corporate world. And I think when you when you really think about like what were the first signals, you know, if you will, that maybe there was a call for something else. It it honestly started when I had my son. Um he's 10 now, so this was a while ago. But I remember feeling that tug of um, is this is this the like thing I want to do anymore? Like by staying in this corporate position, I was involved in digital marketing, um, working with brand teams, IT teams, and you know, doing everything there was to do about our websites um for this Fortune 100 company. I had been there, you know, for a long time and I enjoyed it, but it's like when I had my son, it was just like, well, what do I really want my life to be about? Because the only path I could see was getting my, you know, three-month maternity leave, figuring out what was next, uh, you know, finding the daycare, which is a whole whole little thing when you're in corporate, fine, you know, figuring out like, are we gonna do the nanny route, all that fun stuff. And um that was my first signal. And I think what kept me doing what I was doing is uh stars aligned, I guess, to the point that I had a great um manager who understood, you know, what I needed as a mom. And he was in a daycare like just down the road. So I was able to go see him actually on a lot of lunches where I just booked the time and kind of set the boundary and everybody kind of knew about it of like, I go see my son then, I take care of him. Um, and that's what kept me going, I think, at first. But then, you know, as the years kind of went on a little bit and he was growing, I I had my daughter, and then you start going through the same feelings again of dropping that baby off and being like, I just don't feel good about this. This isn't really what I want to do. I'm missing all this time. And then it was 2020 when we were, my husband and I were at home, we work for the same company, we're on back-to-back calls, you know, we're both managers have teams, and um my kids are my daughter comes in one day and she's like, Mom, will you play? You know, can you play with me? And she had like her like kitchen set stuff, and I just wanted to cry at that moment because I was like, I can't, you know, I want to, but I can't. I have to be on this call. And um that was when I like looked at my my husband and I was like, you know what? I've had this pool for a long time, and I can't say what's next. But what I do know is I'm gonna hate myself, I think, if I don't just take a chance on doing something else that allows me more time with the kids right now. They were they were sneaking up on that age of like not even being able to be in daycare any longer. And so for me, it really was just like, hey, I need to do something else, and just making the decision, quite honestly. And I didn't know 100% that I would actually be building a content business and you know, in 2025, helping founders build their LinkedIn personal brand, you know, was not was not there.

SPEAKER_00:

But yeah, it was not on the bingo card. Um it's kind of something you not necessarily back into, but you you kind of find yours is a little bit more direct path because you did have the digital marketing background. So kind of what I feel like what you're doing is is a little bit more related. Like you had you had the experience, it maybe not in the same way, but in a similar way. Um I think a lot of people come to it never never having created content or trying to sell a service or work with someone to grow to market anything, right? So it's a little bit different. Um, yeah, you know, I mean what struck me about your story is just how poorly the corp most corporate environments are designed to help new parents, right? Yeah. First of all, three months is hilarious that that's like and some it's even less. It's like eight weeks, which is just I mean, it's ridiculous. Twelve weeks is not much better. Um like European countries, I think sometimes they have like a year, 16 months, 18 months, right? Like it's yes, they do which which makes way more sense because yeah, because it's just there's so much going on, especially for your when you have your first and it's there's so many changes and just all this stuff. That that's a whole we could have a whole show on that. But yeah, that's part of it. And then like you said, and the daycare setup. Now you sound like you were lucky because you got one that was close enough.

SPEAKER_02:

You were able to lucky with my son.

SPEAKER_00:

Most most people don't have that, right? Like you're you drop off and you don't see them for 10 hours. Um and that window is so short, as as you know, because your kids are a little bit older now, and mine are even older than yours. But you know, those first five or six years, first of all, they go by in a blink, but you can't get that back and you can't replicate that time. Like when your kids are older, you can somewhat you can make up for lost time because you can do like the same activities, but yeah, like you can't do with your three-year-old what you can do with like your 10-year-old, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Like that's it's just yeah, it's just it's just totally different. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So um, so I totally feel you there. Um, what so when you found when so when you first started thinking about it, obviously you weren't thinking like LinkedIn content and helping you know founders. What what steps did you take in the interim, or like what were your initial steps to explore something different?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, great question. So, like I knew um when I left in the summer of 2021 and I'd put in my two weeks, I had just started dabbling on medium.com, which is a platform that anybody can go to and write articles and hit publish. And, you know, coming from a marketing background and being really familiar with online assets, with you know, websites, I I was I was kind of in tune with it. My husband started talking about it and he's like, why don't you start there and just start writing and see like what happens? And I really enjoyed it. So, like during the day when I'd have the kids and we'd go to the zoo or we'd go to Metro Parks and explore when they laid down and took it, took a nap. That's when I wrote. And so I talked about parenting and self-improvement and early career advice and travel, like just topics I was interested in, honestly, not not really being that focus of like a what you should be doing, of like thinking of the reader or the audience you're trying to reach. I purely admit I was just selfish and like writing about things I enjoyed. Um, but it just purely like helped me, I think, grow confidence to be online because before then I wasn't publishing, I wasn't really creating. I was kind of more of the behind the scenes person for those 15 years, you know, knowing what was involved and what was needed, but not being the actual creative. Um, and so that I'd say 2022 was my year of like building confidence. Um, and then it was a friend of mine and also discovering a writer, Tim Dennings, um, who's a very successful freelance writer. And he was saying, if you're not on LinkedIn and you're trying to like build a writing business, you're totally missing the boat. And so for me, that was the like, oh, really? LinkedIn? Like I have a profile, but I've done nothing with it. You know, I go on and I check and see what people are doing that went to college with me and where they're working and that kind of thing, but I am not commenting, I am not liking, you know, you will not see a trace of me paying attention. Um, and so that just sparked my interest. And and my friend was like, hey, Allison, you've written 400 articles. Quit writing. You need to get clients if you're gonna actually like be able to do this and make money and not and not have to go back to the nine to five. So yeah, 2023, January is when I got serious about LinkedIn and I updated my profile and said I'm an SEO writer because that's what my experience was from my digital marketing career. I kind of self-taught myself and knew like its impact of doing all the work that we did on websites, and um ended up getting two clients after, you know, two months of posting, you know, for 60 days, like three times a week, talking about my story. And uh what happened was a colleague of mine who I had worked with saw my content, introduced me to a nonprofit they were working at, and three years later, they're still a retainer client of mine that I still do all their content for.

SPEAKER_00:

That's amazing. Yeah. Um, well, that I mean, that's the the power of the power of LinkedIn is is quite, I think, even still a little bit underestimated. I think more and more people are coming to the party uh with all the layoffs and kind of the the way the world has shifted the last few years, but that's I mean, you just never know who's gonna see your stuff. You never know who it's gonna resonate with. And then like in that situation, it wasn't necessarily your colleague, it was someone they knew, right? And that's the real key, is it not isn't necessarily the person that's consuming it, but they you don't know who they know or who that person knows, and then a referral and like, hey, let's have a conversation, and then you know, you get a you get a client for for 36 months and and going, so that's amazing. Um did you use any of your old medium articles in your first content or did you write content fresh?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, good question. Um, I can remember so that second retainer client that I ended up getting, it was for a parenting company, and I I was with them for a year doing SEO blogs, and sure enough, I was able to use a lot of the parenting articles that I had written as my portfolio examples, and that's what I'd sent them. And I think that absolutely kind of helped open the door a little bit more because they could see my writing, they could see how much I had done there, even though hello, I was not getting paid for those, right? I was just doing it, and I think that's the point I just want to put out there to people. Sometimes we have to do things a lot of the time that we're not getting paid for, but it's it's what we the end up referencing, you know, when we want to actually get some of these jobs or opportunities that come in front of us. We've got this material to show. Um, and I think that that made a difference.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's the compound, it's the compounding effect um of content and articles, blogs, whatever you're writing that builds. And then B, it's also practice because the more you it's like anything else, right? The more you do it, the better you get, you learn, you get faster, you get better, you know, all that stuff. So definitely you have to have that kind of beginner's mindset of just I'm just gonna give this a spin and and just see. Um at what point, so early 23, and then you got a couple clients. Um at what point did the wheel start spinning where you were like, all right, like I think if I stick with this, um, like this can kind of be my new path, my new way to generate revenue without having to look for a job.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I I think starting out, you know, my husband was still working full-time at that point. And so my goal was I just need to make enough money to pay for certain bills in our house. You know, so we I had certain bills that I was gonna be responsible for and then ones that he was. And I think having that like financial goal right there helped kind of push me, you know, to try to like put myself out there more because I was like, I don't want to go back to the nine to five if I don't have to, because I see what this kind of life is allowing me to do. It's allowing me to be at home when my kids get off the bus at 3 30 and when they're you know grouchy or happy, I get to have that conversation of like, what what happened today? Like, what's going on? Instead of waiting until like, I don't know, like six or six thirty pickup, you know, at an after school program, which hey, we as parents have to do what we got to do, and I get that. Um, but I, in my, in my heart, I was just feeling like if I don't have to do that, I don't want to do it. And so that was a huge motivational factor for me to keep pushing. And then in that year of 2023, and I'll just say this, I think it was easier for more people to find you because we were experiencing more impressions on our post content, which meant, you know, more estimated eyeballs were looking at us. And so I felt like I proactively had a lot more inbound coming to me. And I did not have to really practice that whole skill of sending DMs, you know, proactively and messages proactively to try to talk to people to see if they were interested in my services. And so that year I had a few other people reach out to me and they saw what I was doing on LinkedIn with my content. And if it wasn't SEO blog writing that they were interested in, that second offering was starting to become LinkedIn ghostwriting for posts, or like, how do I even know what to talk about? So I would like create their whole content strategy and show them the pillars and then how their stories line up under each pillar and how important it is to like repeat this and what it looks like in a content calendar, you know, all those things that like if it's not intuitive for you, or if you don't have time for it, it's really valuable for someone to be able to step in and give that clarity. Um, so yeah, that's when I started seeing a pickup of like, oh, people are interested in in people who know how to use this platform and who could potentially help them also create more awareness of like what they do and who they help.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a good point. You really you really kind of almost kind of uh naturally pivoted or moved toward personal branding, um, like in the form of ghostwriting or or content creation.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Um, because it is so important and it's becoming it will continue. Personal branding is it's a cliche term, but with again, with all the layoffs and the way that kind of society and jobs and everything is moving, it's like you have to have you have to have more than just a resume, right? Like a digital preprint somewhere, LinkedIn, Instagram, or wherever, but they need to be able to see the way you think, you need to wait to hear the creativity, write, talk, whatever. Like there's there's more ways for you to showcase your personality, your skills, than just like I've worked at these five companies, and here's a two, you know, two pages of you know, here's what I did. Um we're moving away from that. I think at some point resumes will almost be obsolete because you'll be like, here's like here's my portfolio, or here's my LinkedIn profile, and this is everything I've done. Oh yeah. Um it's just it's just different. And I think the kids, like our kids, will maybe never even know what a resume is. I know.

SPEAKER_02:

I think about that because it's a point I bring up when I do speaking events. Um, so I just did an event with uh a bunch of um medical students, actually. And I think one point I said that was kind of surprising to them, or they just didn't think about is when you Google somebody's name today, I guarantee you in those top three spots on that first page of Google is LinkedIn, because LinkedIn is a high like domain authority website. And so when they're Googling your name, whether your profile is saying what you want it to or not, people are clicking on that because they know it to be like this more professional website, right? This more professional network. And so people are clicking on that, and that's where they're getting their information about you. That could be people who are considering you for a job a lot of the time, or considering like working with you because they've heard your name from other places or hiring you or collaborating or whatever. So that's why I, you know, in my process, like working with clients, it's always like step number one of like, let's make sure the profile is actually set up and saying the things that you want it to say so that it's like attracting the right people to you.

SPEAKER_00:

Let's make it look like you've touched it in the less than the last six years.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, exactly. Let's not have the blank banner or the like banner with the pretty landscape like behind me. I mean, I I like pretty pictures, but unfortunately, like propped wedding photo from 2010.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's like or the picture with three people in it, you don't know which one they are.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh gosh. Yeah, not good, not good. Um especially depending on like what profession you're in. So, like for those medical students, I was like, you know, it's a good idea to have like a professional shot, and you know, the lab coat doesn't hurt to kind of signal that you are a medical, you're in the medical profession. Those are important things, like all of them kind of like come together.

SPEAKER_00:

I think I I could do a whole episode on just stuff I've seen on LinkedIn from about sections.

SPEAKER_02:

That would be so fun. That would actually be so fun.

SPEAKER_00:

Backwards names, lowercase names, um, misspelling.

SPEAKER_02:

Third person is always fun for me.

SPEAKER_00:

Third person about sections are great. Yeah. Um testimonials from 2004, really, really special. I was yeah, I was awesome 21 years ago. Um terrible now, but so good. So good in 04. Too bad you didn't find me then. Um yeah, it's it's it's wild. But it is changing because most people, I think, still think of it as like basically a virtual resume or just like a placeholder where you just you you set it up, you don't touch it, you forget it. List out list out your experience. Uh, you might do an about section of like this is what I do, and that's it. And then you don't really touch it because you're like, I have a job, yeah. I don't need it. The thing is, and what a lot of people are learning the hard way is you need to use it before you need it. So build it. You could have the best job of the world and be totally satisfied and be like, I'm gonna work here forever, and that's awesome, and hopefully that continues. But they also could let you go tomorrow and you have no control over that. So don't wait until it's like a crisis or a panic, and then you're like, oh my god, I gotta scramble. Like post content even like you know, once every other week. It doesn't have to be a lot of time. But you just you just give it a little bit out there and you feed it, you keep it updated, and then if you're like, Oh, well, now I need to use it, like boom, it's like ready and usable, not like oh, I haven't touched this in a decade, like you know, what do I do? So um what do you think is the most important that you've learned? As you've done more of the personal branding for these executives, these founders, what have you seen move the needle in terms of the content you're helping them create? Like what has been the most impactful in terms of like helping their business?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. I think the first thing is just clarity. I think a lot of people try to be really clever over explaining who they help and what they do. Like just to give you an example, I worked with a client more recently where, you know, I was pointing out that okay, so you help CEOs, you know, and she was like, Well, I don't really want to talk about exactly who, because I I help a lot of different people. And I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna be honest with you. Like, what moves the needle though is talking very specifically about the job titles of people that you help, because when people are reading that, they can identify very quickly, okay, great. This is yes, okay, she she might be able to help me. And guess what? If they love your content and they resonate with it, they're they're still gonna probably ask you to help them, even though they don't fit under the title. I mean, that's what I've found, like with what I've done. Like, people will say, I know that we started working on this together, um, but I'd really like you to write my website copy, or I'd really like you to do my email nurture sequence, and then it's on you to say, yes, you're a great client. I enjoy you. The chemistry's there, let's do it. Or you know what? Sorry, I I just I'm really trying to concentrate on this offer. And there's enough people coming to me about this one offer to keep me, you know, pretty busy. So I can't do it right now, but I appreciate it. You know what I mean? I think, I think, because I wrestled with that a long time. I think I I went really broad for a while. Um, and it took me different iterations to really get to this place of like, okay, but who do I specifically want to work with? And what I've found and more recently made a change was there's a lot of fractional executives that I work with and help. I mean, that's what it comes down to. It's a lot of like CMOs, COOs, um, CFOs that are building their brands. And I wasn't really saying that a lot in my content. And I want to attract more of those people. So that's something I added in my headline to make that really clear of like, and I work with fractional executives, you know, instead of because again, when you go too broad about because there's a lot of people who do LinkedIn personal brand building, yeah, you know, but when you go too broad, people just can't identify with like if you're the person that can help them or not.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a good point. And I think it's hard for new people. I made the same mistake. I think a lot of people who start out, yeah, you're you're scared to niche or or or to to be clearer because you're afraid you're gonna turn away, you're afraid you're gonna lose business. Like, yeah, oh, if I say if I say fractional, well then somebody who's not a fractional is gonna be like, ah, Allison's not for me. And it doesn't work that way. There's a weird psychology of the whole like uh uh what is it, uh appeal to everyone and appeal to no one. Um the broader you go, the harder it is for people to be like, you're I think you're talking to me, I'm not sure. Right, um there was a book I read this summer that's they used photography as an example, but like if you're a photographer and you do like sports, uh head corporate headshots, weddings, and like family photos, right? Let's say you do those four and someone comes to your website looking specifically for weddings, but they see that you do all four, they're like, Well, like you do it, but like I'm not sure. And so they're probably gonna go and find someone who just does weddings.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Whereas you could do all those things, but you specialize in one, it doesn't matter, pick one, let's say weddings. You do their wedding, and then they're like, Oh, this is great. Will you do my kids like you know, 11-year-old soccer team? Like, yeah, sure. So, like you just need an in, you need a clear in, and then you can you can go from there. So it's a little bit of reverse psychology that a lot of people just don't understand.

SPEAKER_02:

They don't, yeah. And I feel like it takes like experience in living through it to finally like honestly have it click for you. Because I can remember people saying this, like when I was reading content and posts, and I was like, eh, but it it took like having to live through it to really be like, yeah, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, there's a little bit of exclusivity too, because some people will see it that you're only working with whatever, it doesn't matter, some group, and then they want in. Even if they're not like even if they aren't that, they're like, Well, I know that's all that she does or all he does, but I just want to like it be a part of it. And so it's there's a weird, like, you're excluding, but you're really attracting. It's it's very there's a lot of psychology involved. Oh, it is. It's weird, it's just not normal thinking.

SPEAKER_02:

The more I do content, actually, I think the more I feel drawn to understanding human psychology like as a topic, because I feel like it so heavily influences really how you can come across in everything from writing to design. And so, yeah, there's there's a lot behind that. Um, his name is uh it's spelled X H O N I, but he goes by Johnny on the platform, and I can't remember his last name, of course. I remember first names a lot for some reason. I can't always remember the whole name. I always have to go back and look, but he talks a lot about human psychology and how you are creating content like on the platform. And I've talked with him too, and it makes a lot of sense. Like there's a lot there that feeds into then why people want to read more. And often, and you I know have probably realized this too and seen it like people relate to emotional things, yeah. You know, so you've got to that's where like the stories come in and talking about your experiences, and you've been really good about that, David. I think you've been, you know, really big in sharing your journey and being open with the good things and the bad things and what's been hard. And people like respond to that because, you know, I think we're all just filled with emotions a lot. And so like when we see something where somebody is like being more open about that, I think we just kind of are we just kind of perk up a little bit more because we're all kind of tired of, I don't know about you, we're tired of this like generic advice because there's just so much content to consume. And we've got so much going on in our individual lives that it's just like scroll past, scroll past, you know, it's just I can't, I can't deal with it. It's like it's it's not helpful.

SPEAKER_00:

100%. I mean, the emotional, I mean, we're emotional creatures and we typically what's the saying? You uh you buy based on emotion, then you justify with logic, right? Like the how-to, the technical, the details of what you do. People don't really buy that. Yeah, they want to know it, but they're really buying because of how you make them feel. Like you're like, oh, I'm drawn into that person's world, I resonate with this story. It could be like you're a mom, your kids are younger, you tell that story, I left corporate because I want to spend more time with my kids. They themselves are experiencing that same thing, right? That's that's why they want to work with you. It isn't because you I mean, there's a part of it that's like how you do your work, but that's typically significantly less important than they relate to you, right? Because we we, you know, the whole like you buy, you typically buy from people that you I don't want to say like, but there's something you can you connect with them in some way.

SPEAKER_01:

You relate.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and that right, relate. That's a better word. Um, and that's what makes you want to do business with them, and then the the technical, the how, whatever, because a lot of people you'll see like my program is this and we do this. Like, honestly, people don't really care. It could be four weeks, it could be twelve weeks, yeah, could be two years, whatever. Like, yeah, that's important, but they wonder they want to know like who you are and then like what it they're gonna get out of it. And that always comes from an emotional place, not a logical or a tactical, like how to.

SPEAKER_02:

I agree. And I think to that point, like I'm the first to always tell like my clients too, like, really LinkedIn is the the place where you can break the ice. So, like when you're going, when you have a conference or an event coming up and you're starting to pay attention to like who's gonna be there, and you that's your opportunity to connect with them like ahead of time so that when you then arrive, like you're able to have more of a conversation and it feels like it flows better. Like when we can connect more of what we're doing on LinkedIn to real life and meeting in person with people and having like the Google meets or the Zoom calls or whatever, that's where I've really seen traction, you know, even in my business and with my clients, that's where I see it all start to flow because it's like LinkedIn should not, in my, in my eyes, you know, it's not, it's not the the full, the full way to bring clients in. It's just a it's a piece of that where they discover you. But like there's other little touch points after that that need to happen for that really to come into what it's gonna be, whether that's working with you and purchasing your service or collaborating on a project together and bringing audiences together, you know, more has to happen.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I agree. It definitely content creation used to be. We were talking about this before the show started. You know, if you started in like between 19 and maybe 21, content creation alone on LinkedIn was probably enough simply because of the way the platform was operating. So you got so many impressions, that's probably all you really need to do is just post content, say I'm open for business, and that was probably gonna be enough to sustain you. That has shifted so much in part because of the algorithm shifts, and like you said, impressions, the how many people see your each individual post is significantly less. Two, there's a lot more people creating now. Again, we've talked about it, just the the shift with layoffs and just more people looking for alternative, whether it's side hustles or or full-time hustles, it doesn't matter. So there's a lot more competition, so it's different now. So LinkedIn, like you said, it's part of it. The other thing about you talk about the in-person networking, it's a good point because I've seen a lot of people write content where they say they go to a conference and someone will stop them and be like, Oh, I see your content on LinkedIn. They've never commented, they've never liked it. This person has they don't know them, they don't, they're almost like a celebrity to them, like, oh, I love your LinkedIn content. And they're like, I didn't even know, I don't even know who you are. Like, how you see my LinkedIn content? Right, yeah, exactly. But that's to your point, it's like yeah, that content is an is an in because they feel like they know you. Like they're like, I know you like I've I've read the last eight months of your of your post, so whatever. Yeah 30, 50, 100 posts, doesn't matter. That's that's an icebreaker, and then yeah, who knows, right?

SPEAKER_02:

It's a conversation starter.

SPEAKER_00:

Correct. Like that's so that's why it always it isn't always just like I'm writing content to get clients, like, yeah, that's great. But it's networking, it's relationships, it's collaborations, it's partner referrals. Like someone could come to you and you're like, you know what, I'm full up, but I know this person would does a great job, and you can send them. And then you know, six months later, vice versa, right? So there's all there's all sorts of other ways and why it's important to put it out there because it isn't just yeah, like the bottom line. But that the in-person networking in combination is is really powerful.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I agree. Things just come in from different directions. That's what I've noticed. And you just you never know where it's gonna land. And I mean, for me, there's been moments where um I've almost allowed that feeling of being so uncomfortable about something because it feels new or it feels scary to me because I'm like, oh gee, like speaking for one. Like I've I've I've done some speaking events, I want to do more, but honestly, I'm not gonna lie. Like, I still get really nervous when I have to do that. And uh, I mean, my husband would be able to validate this like days before I'm looking at him and I'm like, why did I decide to do this? Like, why, why do I put myself through the nerve thing? And he's like, Because you really like it. Because when you get up there, it all snaps together and you and you like it and you talk about it afterwards. And I've met I've met a lot of clients that way. I've met just other people who have then invited me to other things. And it's just again, things just come in from different directions, and it all has like originated in some way on the platform. And that's why I tell people like how important it is, and kind of going back to what you said of like using it before you need it. Um, yeah, I mean, in my nine to five, I wish I would have been using it honestly, way before, even when I was trying to build a business, because who knows what opportunities or people I would have met across the country, across the world that could have been different things, you know, for me to do. So when I'm teaching college kids and we're talking about digital marketing and content creation, I'm throwing in, hey, and by the way, LinkedIn, like that's the place you guys need to be spending. I know we do a lot of scrolling, but it is the one platform that I guarantee you will pay you back in better ways than maybe some of these other ones. Um yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00:

I've had I used to track it, I don't anymore, but at one point I had calls with people in 16 countries, like Zoom calls. Um, and that never like that was never gonna happen if I did not start putting myself out there like they I was never gonna find them. Oh they were never gonna find me, like it would have been impossible. Like our paths couldn't have crossed. Uh, I've traveled, I've been to Toronto a couple times, I went to Minnesota, I'd never been there, I've met people. So the power of a platform just can't be understated. Um I want to ask, so you're talking about the building and the content. You've done a good job of this, I have done a bad job of this. So that's why I want your take. Um, you started a newsletter that actually is good and consistent, which we were talking about earlier. Um, but that is really, I think it has really helped you. Uh it's helped your business and it's it's been a nice addition. Uh, and obviously there's newsletter fatigue because you know, like everybody seems to have a newsletter. Yeah. But talk about like when you decided to do it, I think it's called the content cup, if I'm saying that correctly.

SPEAKER_01:

Yep.

SPEAKER_00:

Like how did that form? And then talk about how that has kind of also helped be like an another another brand build.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, thank you for asking about that. Um, so I remember it was at the end of 2023, and um I had uh met another freelancer. His name is Austin L. Church, and he's on LinkedIn. He has a freelance cake community. Um, and I admired the way he was writing. Uh, he has a journalism background. And so him and I just started talking, and I just love the structure of the business he had built. Um he wrote a book, he has a community, he does this, you know, consulting work, and we just started talking, and so I decided to do like a paid strategy session with him. And I remember talking about a newsletter, and honestly, I had big doubts because that was at the end of 2023. Like I'd barely been doing this a year, and I was like, I don't know, Austin. I feel like I should wait another year because I don't feel like I have enough to talk about or say. And he's like, Allison, who says it has to like be a certain amount or done, you know, at a certain cadence? You will not be sorry for starting one. You just gotta start because that's the hardest part of just starting, and then it can evolve and change over time. And it definitely has. Like, I started out, it was called the organic freelancer, actually. And I use the word organic related to like organic uh traffic because I talked a lot about SEO at first. Cause like I said, I that's how I started of being an SEO writer, and then very soon I was like, I hate this name because organic makes me think of produce, and this is like I hate it, you know. But I'll be honest, I kept it a while because I surveyed people and they were like, no, I like it, don't change it. I'm like, oh, and I was talking to freelancers because that's how I kind of like saw myself. But guess what? Like, those weren't the people that I was that would be buying my services, and so like I had to do a little shift in that and change that to be more focused towards you know, people who would be wanting to work with me so that you know I was actually trying to attract business from that medium. So it evolved and became the content cup. Um, I probably should have honestly labeled it more like LinkedIn specific because it is mostly all about LinkedIn at this point because that's just like what I live and breathe with people. But yeah, like I started with doing it one time a week. Um, and then honestly, this last summer, I kind of made the decision to go bi-weekly because my kids were home, and I was like, man, this is really hard to keep up with because I'm trying to do client work and trying to do this, they're at home, so I need to I won't be spending time with them. Like, why did I do this to spend more time with my kids? And so I went bi-weekly, and honestly, I just haven't gone back. It's it's been a good cadence for me with the workload I have right now, and so it's just kind of stuck. But yeah, I think what's helped is just having that advice, honestly, from people way ahead of me and just like reaffirming some things and um crushing those doubts, honestly.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think that twice a twice a month is a good cadence. That's when I send mine when I send it. Um, I just always really struggled to know what to say. I didn't know the difference between my content and my newsletter. So I always really struggled with trying to draw the line. Should I be should it be the same? Like I do a post and I'll just like that post is the newsletter, or yeah, is my newsletter like a summary of my post, or is it totally different? Like I've I've always had a really hard time. Like, what do I talk about in my newsletter? I don't know. It's been it's been a struggle.

SPEAKER_02:

And I don't think it's like, I don't think there's any hard and fast rules to that either, because I've seen newsletters that are just the length of a post on LinkedIn. So they're it's a real short takeaway, like a one to two minute thing, and that works for people. Um, mine's always been a bit on the longer side, probably like five minutes um or so. But I think for me, um, what I've found and just kind of looking at newsletter topics over time, I pay attention to the ones that get the email responses where people send me an email and make a comment about what I said, and I keep track of that. So that's like a recurring theme for me to think about and mentioned, you know, later, like in an in another year, or maybe there's a different spin to that that I should be talking about. Because I'll be honest, a lot of the time my readers give me the best ideas for my newsletter based on their engagement, you know, of responding back and saying, hey, this resonated with me, or um, you know, they start there and then they end up talking about their own like experiences happening right now. And that leads me into like, oh, that would be a good topic for my newsletter. So that's kind of, but again, I think that comes a little later, the more you've been doing because you're you're growing the audience and and you're getting more of those topics. But anytime I think you can really focus on more about like kind of like what you've experienced, because I do think you need to show what you're thinking about, what your results have kind of been in things, um, as well as like while still talking to the audience about a struggle that they're dealing with, I think that seems to be one of the best formulas because when we open your newsletter, David, a lot of us open it because it's David, and we know David from LinkedIn and seeing your post and knowing some of your story. So if you were just to give us like a top-level tip without integrating any story of yours and your experience and like it was good or it was bad or it was okay, it's not probably gonna feel as as good to us because we're expecting that from you to kind of see that a little bit.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's a good point. Um, I just it's something I need to take more seriously and um figure out. What let me ask you this just one more newsletter question. So I know you do you will do a post with it's almost like a teaser.

SPEAKER_02:

We do a teaser on Wednesdays. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

So you'll you'll give a little bit, but then you'll be like to find out more. You know, sign up the newsletter. Have you tracked because you and I both like data, so have you tracked like how those posts do in terms of signups?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I've had hundreds like subscribe through that. So it's like it's like a little bit at a time. You know, I would say it's ranged from two, I think the most I saw once was like eight signups. So it's ranged from like two to eight signups every time I do that. Um, but it's worth it to me because you know, as we both know, LinkedIn is rented space. Ideally, you want to move people off that platform to an owned platform like your newsletter, um, you know, see re being subscribers of your podcast. And um I I know there's the whole thing of like, you know, people get into well, don't put a link in your post or whatnot. But you know what's funny? When I look at my post from the last 365 days, um, there's one in the top three there for engagements, and it was about how I how I botched a podcast and it was all about my dog barking loudly. Thankfully he's not doing that on this one. Um but that was in my top three, and I had a link to my newsletter in the post. And it's crazy to me how honestly a lot of them do pretty decently from an impression standpoint versus other ones. And it has a link in the post.

SPEAKER_00:

I think it's all a myth. I don't think anyone really knows. I think stuff gets perpetuated, the the links and sp spacing and bold and emojis and whatever. You you can you can go down a rabbit hole of like what to do and what not to do. I don't think any everyone's guessing and it changes all the time. So it's like just just do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Like guessing on their experience, right? And then like saying this is the experience for everyone.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. But a lot of those people have much bigger followings. So like if you have a smaller follow, let's say you have a thousand followers and you have 500 connections, but you're reading an article from someone who has 75,000 followers and 25,000 connections, like the data, the numbers can't match. So I'm not saying you can't learn from them, but you can't apply their techniques or tactics because the they're just playing a different game. We talked about this a little bit with bigger creators. They started earlier, they have huge followings. Again, I'm not saying go follow them or don't pay attention. You you can't extract knowledge for them, you can't apply it, but you have to do it in a way that works for you. You cannot just be like, oh, well, so and so who has this huge following is doing this. I'm gonna copy that. Like, it won't work for you that way. Um, but newsletter signups are hard because, again, that's why I started my first one because when I first started LinkedIn, it was like everybody had a newsletter. That's only reason I started it is because, well, I was like, well, everybody has one, but I didn't have a purpose to it, so it didn't work, and I ended up I got burnt out on it. I stopped it after a few months. Now I started it again with a little different mission. It that one's gone a little bit better, but um the signups are difficult. So I think what you're talking about is the link is more important. If if the point of the post is to get someone to sign up, put the link in the post. Like take the hit if there even is one.

SPEAKER_02:

There probably is if there is one, yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Right. But there you're giving you because we need to make it as easy as possible. Like we do, like you said, we're inundated with so much stuff. If you make someone work for it, they probably won't. Um unless they really, really, like really want to do it, they're probably gonna skip it. So just make it easier. Um so if someone out there um is thinking about you know, whether they're disgruntled or they're like you, they want more work-life balance or whatever, they're thinking about they see a lot of people, there's a lot, you know, Instagram and LinkedIn, especially and TikTok, like you know, this gig economy, creating revenue in non-traditional means, online videos, writing. Um, it looks great from the outside. It looks super easy if you watch someone who's doing it. It looks like they work about two hours a day and they post some content, and then they they have the it it's a lot harder than that. There's a lot more work that goes on that that that's not talked about. So, what what are some things people need to be aware of as they're sitting there thinking, like, I know I can do that, but they've never tried it? Like, what should they kind of be aware of and like look out for?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Um, well, I mean, first off, I tell a lot of people if you have a current job and you're thinking of doing something, don't be so quick to jump ship. Um, because you know, I was uh mine was very planned. So like my husband and I had talked about it, you know, for over the course of a few months, really longer. I mean, because it had been in my head a long time. Um, and he still had his full-time job. So, because when you first start out, my experience is like it's you're nowhere near, I mean, making what you did in your full-time job, nowhere near. So I always say for people asking me, like, keep keep the full-time job really. Don't, don't, don't be so quick to leave, but start actively trying to get a first client in whatever you know, side thing you're trying to do and see if you even like it. Because I think the biggest thing for me that I've just kind of had to learn um and adjust to is like it's a whole new world when you are trying to attract clients or proactively reach out to people. Like in a corporate setting, you get your paycheck every two weeks, um, you know the job, you just have to do the job. Okay, I'm going home. Not that you're not thinking about stuff, you know, after hours, because you do, but there's just this whole different added pressure. And what I've seen, people coming out of like a sales background, I do think they do pretty darn well when they do their own side thing because I think they've been very used to that interaction of, you know, making the ask. And for me, I was very solid in marketing. Like it was a distinct track when I was in college. You were in marketing or you were in sales, and I was always in the marketing side more with creative. And so for me, I've really I've really had to hone that part of me because it really wasn't there, you know? And so it's hard. It's hard.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I think sales, sales in general is hard for most people. I had a sales background. Um, I still found it really hard to sell because selling my own thing was so much different than selling a company's product or service. Because when someone told me no, I didn't care. I was like, What? I have two other sales calls today. One of them will probably tell me yes, like, all right, right. But when I was my own thing, especially something I really believed in, and then they'd be like, Yeah, it's not for me, be like, that like that like stung, it hurt my ego. Like, I created this, like, this is really good. And you're still saying no. So it's there's a there's a emotional and psychological aspect to selling your own thing that most people are not ready for. That's a good thing. And if you've never sold, then it's then it's just totally different because you're like, now I'm just like literally asking for business, which if you've never done, that is that is very difficult to do. Like very difficult. It doesn't matter how much you're charging, which most people are undercharging, but that's a again, that's a whole nother episode. But even if it's five hundred dollars, like it's hard to ask a stranger for five hundred dollars if you've never done it before. That feels terrifying. It is. Yeah. Like, I just do you want it? You're it are you interested? It's like it's like four hundred and ninety-nine dollars. You're just like you have no confidence, and you're just like a mess. So there's a huge, there's a huge sales, I think, learning curve. That even someone like me who had done sales, I still was not prepared for it. So I would say whatever sales you can study or practice, yeah, you can't do that enough at the beginning.

SPEAKER_02:

You can't do that enough. And I think you need to be prepared to to like um, I was considered myself honestly more of an introvert before building my business. And now I do think I'm much more extroverted because you kind of have to be. Um, and you have to figure out, I think, honestly with yourself, is that still a direction you want to go, knowing that kind of is going to happen. Um, for me, I actually like how things have kind of changed for me personally. Um, I've seen growth in doing this that I would have never, like never saw if I would have stayed in my corporate role because it just became more comfortable and I knew the players and I knew the processes. And not that there's anything wrong with being comfortable because you know, when I was having my my babies, I feel like that was very important to add that because chaos is happening at home, is they're getting sick, and you're, you know, upset and worked up about that because you've never been through that as a first-time parent. Um, but yeah, I just I just feel like I'm happy with that growth, but I absolutely see that difference in myself of like how much I've changed personally, and I'm I'm much more apt to like going up to people now and just starting conversations, and I wouldn't have done that before. I would have laid back more.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, so solopreneurship, online business, service providing type business is basically like a personal MBA on steroids. Um you will you will grow in ways that you'd simp it's just simply impossible to do otherwise because you're forced to do it and you have to conversations and and marketing plans and sales and content and writing and invoicing and taxes and LLCs and like just all of it. Speaking, public speaking, like there's just sky's the limit on what you have to do. And as an employee, like you said, for the most part, you play in your lane. You if you're in marketing, like you're not really worried about what the tax team's doing, or you're not really worried about what HR is doing. Like it might come up, but it probably won't. Like it's just your thing, your projects, your team, and that's it. And that's exactly that's all that you do, and that's all you're supposed to do. Like you're not supposed to be doing more, like that's it. But when it's your business, especially if it's just you, and now you're responsible for all of it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yes.

SPEAKER_00:

There's no off switch, there's no five o'clock comes, and you're like, All right, I'm all set. I'll log back in tomorrow at nine. Like, I work when I was doing it, I felt like I was working all the time. Like I was always I was taking a course, I was watching a webinar, I was thinking about content, I was responding to DMs, I was thinking about newsletter topics, I was doing podcast episodes, like not there was no off or no end to where I was like, I felt good, or like, okay, I've done enough. It was like I never felt like I'd done enough, always needed to do more.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I still I mean, to be honest with you, David, I still feel that way. I feel like my brain never really shuts off. Yeah. Um, or when there's downtime, I never feel like it's truly downtime. And I don't know. Like, is that is that a a bad thing long term? I guess time will tell. But what I will say is like there's something to be said about like getting up in the morning and actually being excited about what I'm doing. And I still feel that. So three years later, I'm still feeling that. So I'm taking that as a sign of like I'm on the right path. Like this is where I'm supposed to be right now, like in my life.

SPEAKER_00:

No, that's yeah, no, that's a great point. Um, because if you've ever had the dread of of going into an office, you know how refreshing it is to uh to not do that. What um I know it's hard to predict the future and uh say where you'll be, but like what like what are your long-term goals? Like where would you like to uh like where would you like to take it?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, long term I have my eyes set on being truly like being able to label myself as a creator, that I get to a point where I don't have to fully rely on um trading my time for for business, if you will, that I'm that I am in this like creator space where I have made these products that my audience wants to purchase from me and can use and it's helpful, whether that's um, I don't know, I don't want to say community, but there's all kinds of things people are doing, like communities or digital products that are like mini courses. I've thought about that of creating mini courses. Um, but I I absolutely long term would love to be in that position where I don't have to do um one-on-one consulting unless like I want to because I'm making enough from what I've created. That's the that's the long-term goal.

SPEAKER_00:

I love it. Um yeah, it's great. Uh you're on you're on a great path. Uh it's I know it's been up and down, but it's been up and down for everyone. Um that's the other thing, too. It's not linear. There is no just straight up curves. Like no matter if you end up landing in the right thing, because there's a lot of experimentation that goes into it. No matter what you think you're good at or what you know, yeah, still gonna take you a while to figure out your lane. So it's you have to be prepared for the up and down, not just financially, but just client-wise and your offers and pricing. There's a lot that goes into that, and that's you really can't learn that until you do it. So you just have to really have some bandwidth for failure and for experimentation um that you don't typically need in most other aspects of life, I think.

SPEAKER_02:

Oh, agree. A hundred percent. That's that's what it's been the last few years, you know, experimenting with all that.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, so I I applaud you for sticking with it. I know how hard it is. Um more people I think are struggling than admit on the platform. Um, you can find a lot of really nice Instagram and LinkedIn posts talking about how well people are doing. I think most of that is made up. Um, or they or they haven't given you the full picture. So they're so they're like, I made$50,000 this month, but they don't tell you that they spent$42,000 in ads to to make that happen. That's the fact they leave out.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, and I and I will say, like, I think that's the so the creators like I have admired more are the ones who are showing the bigger picture and showing, like, here's what I brought in, but I have a team, and this is what I have to pay my team. And so when you're taking that and you're taking, you know, the investment in technology and products and software and whatever, then you take all that out. Well, it's not not as large as that original number, right? So I do have a lot of respect for the creators that have been able to be more transparent about money. Because again, coming from the corporate world, it's always so hush-hush of like what everyone's making. And it's been refreshing to find people that are like honest with you about that, so you can truly know what you know you're up against if that's the path you're trying to go down.

SPEAKER_00:

100%. Uh, if people are interested in learning more about your work or possibly working with you, uh obviously LinkedIn, any other place, uh, how can they find you or get in touch if they're interested?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, I mean, LinkedIn's the best spot because I'm there pretty much seven days a week, even if I'm not posting every day. And then um, there's also a call out like in the featured section. If people want to start and subscribe to my newsletter called the Content Cup, like we were talking about every two weeks. I send helpful tips on how you can utilize the platform and grow and attract clients for your business. Um, so that is free. So go there, subscribe. I would love to have you add it to the list.

SPEAKER_00:

Awesome. Uh well, thanks for listening to another episode of the Underlayer where the real story lives. If this episode had re if this episode resonated, uh please like, uh, follow, rate, or subscribe to the show so you never miss another conversation. Uh Allison, thank you so much for your time and insight today. Really appreciate you coming on.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it was great being here. Thank you, David.