The Underlayer: Fear, Clarity & Personal Growth for Mid-Life Professionals

EP 2: How Authentic Swag Builds Real Relationships And Standout Brands

• David Young | Amanda Hofman • Episode 2

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Episode 2 —  How Authentic Swag Builds Real Relationships And Standout Brands

What if your branded merch could actually mean something?

In this episode of The Underlayer, I sit down with Amanda Hoffman, CEO and co-founder of Go To Market, to uncover how authenticity and choice are reshaping the world of branded merchandise.

We go beneath the surface of traditional marketing to explore why cheap giveaways often miss the mark—and how thoughtful, well-designed merch can become a powerful relationship-building tool that reflects your brand’s true identity.


You’ll hear:


• Why it’s better to do nothing than produce low-quality swag
• How choice creates deeper engagement and customer satisfaction
• Real examples of brands turning merch into meaningful conversations
• The rise of digital storefronts for solopreneurs and small businesses
• How nostalgia, loyalty, and design connect at an emotional level
• Amanda’s perspective on balancing business growth with personal fulfillment


By the end, you’ll see that the most impactful branding isn’t about more logos, it’s about more meaning.

🎧 The Underlayer — Where the Real Story Lives.


https://www.linkedin.com/in/amandagoldfinehofman/

https://gotomarket.studio/



The Underlayer YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/@the_under_layer

The Underlayer Podcast Website: https://www.theunderlayerpodcast.com/

David's LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-young-mba-indy/

SPEAKER_00:

You are listening to episode two of The Underlayer Where the Real Story Lives. I'm your host, David Young, and in each episode, we explore what's beneath the surface, the ideas, experiences, and insights that shape how we find clarity, alignment, and energy in our lives. Today, my guest is Amanda Hoffman. She's the CEO and co-founder of Go to Market, a woman-owned business looking to revolutionize the way the world handles swag. They don't do pens, keychains, or stress balls. Uh they take a completely different approach to how personal brands, businesses and personal brands uh market themselves with merchandise. She lives in New York City with her two kids and a rescue dog. She loves to run, race, cycle, and apparently bike touring, which I did not know was a thing. So Amanda, welcome to the show. Thanks for coming on.

SPEAKER_01:

Thanks for having me. I'm really excited to chat with you today.

SPEAKER_00:

Um so yeah, I want to get right into it. So you your company excuse me, called Go to Market. And your your thing is unique, uh eye-catching, more insightful, some depth to the merchandise. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_01:

I would say less unique and more authentic.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

So we really want to create items that feel deeply like the brand that we're working on, right? Like you want it to reflect your identity, your values, um, what makes people feel like they're a part of your brand, your club, your community, your coaching, your book, whatever it is, that should be reflected in your branded merchandise. Uh, and it's not reflected when you print your logo on a whole bunch of random stuff. It also isn't reflected when you um are just like spraying and praying, like just like giving everybody something. Um we think a lot about how to make branded merchandise that actually reflect reflects your company and what you're trying to do in your business.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I love that. What so how do you where does that come from? So you obviously work with the client or clients depending on what's set up. Um is it insight from them and then from your team? Because I know you have it's yourself, and I think you have a designer, graphic designer, you have to do it.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, my business partner is an artist and a designer, and then we have three other three other people who work with us. Okay. Um we do a real deep dive on our clients before we first meet with them. And the reason we do that is that we don't want to design branded merchandise and swag that can be interchangeable with any other business. Um, like a life coach who talks about like feeling happy and finding joy. We don't just want to, we don't want to make the live, laugh, love of branded merchandise, right? Like the merch is supposed to help you stand out in a crowded field and help people understand at a glance what makes you different from from everyone else who's doing what you do. How are you different from the other coaches? How are you different from the other authors? How are you different from the other financial planners? How are you different from the other lawyers? Why should someone be interested in you? And that is the whole picture of branding in general. That is the work of branding and branded merchandise and swag as a part of that. But so often branded merchandise and swag is just like, how much money do we have? How much people, how many people do we need to give it to? Divide, okay, we have five dollars, what can we get for five dollars? It's a pen. Like that sucks. I think it's much better to do nothing than to do like something crappy, but it just like companies, corporations are just are still doing things that the way that they've been done in like the 80s, the 90s, and the early 2000s, which like absolutely does not make sense in today's world.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and I I want to get into that because that's really fascinating to me how we continue to in a lot of things in life, but especially this, like we just keep doing the same thing. Um, we were talking right before we started recording. So my first job out of college, first real job, was selling pharmaceuticals. I worked for Roche for about five years, and we had all the traditional uh pharma giveaways, right? We had a lot of pens, we had cubed, uh tear-off, kind of squared. They weren't post-its because they didn't stick, but they look like post-its. We had more like a little bit bigger, like rectangle tear-offs. Um, we had you know pedometers, um, I don't know, just standard stuff. And I worked uh trade show at a at the convention center, I think it was in Columbus, Ohio, for pharmacists. And so I get there and we get all set up and we, you know, we have our booth and the table and whatever. And I swear I swear it was like pharmacists had never seen a pen before. I have never they were like vultures. I mean, they were coming, they were taking, I mean, they had their bags that they were given when they walked in, but I swear they were taking like 50, 60 pens. I mean, they were like scooping them up. And I I said to the guy that I was working with, I was like, we're gonna run out of pens in like 10 minutes. Like, just what are we what are they even doing?

SPEAKER_01:

It's just grown-up trick-or-treating. Like, it's not branding relationships, right? Like, these are not leads. These are not people who are going to like look at your post-it and be like, oh man, you know what? That David guy was really special. Like that the notepad is not doing that. So, like, I like to think of brand and merchandise as something that builds the relationship between the people who receive it and the company giving it. Everything else is just free stuff, it's just trick-or-treating. You know, Halloween is obviously on my mind because it was just two weeks ago, but it's like kids go around and just be like, candy, candy, candy, candy, candy, like, give me, give me, give me. And like, we all have that human instinct of like want and like greed and like give me. But what happens is when people get home, when that pharmacist gets home with 30 pens in their bag, they take those 30 pens as a fistful, they put it in their drawer with probably a hundred other pens. And like it doesn't do anything for your relationship. Now, if you're an enormous company like Roche and you just have money to like literally spray anywhere, sure, go for it. You can make pens and notepads and all those things. But if you want to engage leads at a trade show, like you gotta step it up. Like it, you like there's so much more opportunity, especially for smaller businesses, to again distinguish themselves, say something about themselves, like start a conversation, create a relationship with somebody through gift giving and branded merchandise and swag.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I love that. Uh it's so true too, because you knew they were getting pens from like all the other companies, and then it just all it all just blows together.

SPEAKER_01:

If you think of them as like a little kid in a doctor costume, like going around and getting candy, like it actually makes it a very sweet story.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a that is a better reframe. Uh the pens were super cheap and didn't write well either, which always bothered me because I like I need pen, I need my pens to write well. Um also I need 0.7s and they were all 1.0. So they were they were a no-go for me from the start. Um so you talked about like going back to like the 80s, so we're you know 40 plus years ago, and it hasn't changed a lot. Like it's it's we're still kind of doing a lot of people and companies are doing like the same marketing, right? Why?

SPEAKER_01:

I think it's just I think people don't think about it in the same way that it's like, oh well, you need to have business cards, but it's the same thing. Like we're all still people are changing around that slowly, but like we've had business cards long past the function of having business cards, right? Why? It's just because we've always done it. It's what you need, right? Like you need a professional photo for your LinkedIn, right? These are just truths that we accept. Like, you need to go to a trade show, you need to have a giveaway, you need to give away water bottles. Everyone needs a water bottle. Let's give that away. It's like that's not what we're doing anymore. Like the world today that we live in, anyone can get something that they want within two days or less, right? You can just buy it yourself, very cheap. Things are affordable, easy to get, and you can get the shirt that you want. You can get the water bottle that you want, you can get the point 1.0 pen, not the 0.7 pen, right? So, like, why would we want the things that don't meet our needs from a company? Like, why would we do that? So we have new technology now, right? Like, so on one hand, people can get everything they want. And on the other hand, we now have print on demand. So I am, you know, really adamant about companies going print on demand for their branded merchandise. In most cases, there are some cases for bulk printing, and I can get into that if that's interesting. Um, but for the most part, having a digital website with all of your branded merchandise where somebody can go on and say, I really relate to this message, I really relate to this style. I'm personally right now wearing an off-the-shoulder t-shirt. I can think of 15 people who would rather be caught dead than wearing this. And I can think of another 15 people who would want this right off my back if I said, Hey, do you want this shirt?

unknown:

Right?

SPEAKER_01:

It's polarizing. I love it. It doesn't mean you need to love it. But like the point is, I am gonna reach for this first. I wear this all the time because I think it's great, right? You want to give somebody like me the opportunity to pick the one that's gonna make me really happy and want to wear it all the time, and somebody who hates it to have an opportunity to get like the unisex fit or like the oversized fit or like a thick t-shirt. There's no reason not to give somebody choices in what they want. And when somebody chooses the branded merchandise that speaks best to them, that fits them, that like flatters them, that like reflects their values and their identity, they're more likely to wear it, they're more likely likely to keep it in the long run, they're more likely to wear it and talk to people about it, which is why you made it in the first place, right?

SPEAKER_00:

So I've seen I know you talk about in your post, you you share stories of like people wearing the merch and then like getting stopped in airports or grocery stores because it's it's sparking that conversation, right? And that's that I think is the kind of the point.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's saying something about you. Like, why do we wear the things that we wear in general? It's because it says something about me. I want people to think of me this certain way. So when I'm wearing my merch is fun or my swag boss or my like merch mentor shirt, like I'm sending a pretty big message with that about who I am, what I want to talk about, um, what kinds of values I have, like all in a glance. And like social media, that's what you got. You have a glance. So, like, what are you saying in that glance?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I mean, the attention span obviously is I don't know if it I think it's I mean, it is short, but I will pay attention. Like, we'll watch an hour show on Netflix. So, I mean, we will pay attention if it's interesting enough, but I think it's the the competition for the attention, right? There's so much.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I actually don't think it's an intention attention span at all. It's that we're being fed a fire hose of images. And so while we're watching, it's kind of like you know, I live in New York City and I take the subway all the time. And when you see things fly by your face, you have to like quickly catch what station you're at. And if there's an ad you liked, it's like you you have literally like a fraction of a second to see it, and that's how it is on social media too. So, like, what do you want to say in that time?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, for sure. Um Do you have uh from your and you've doing it for over five years now? Do you have like a one that really stands out, like a brand that you worked with, you came up with something really unique, and then you really saw the tangible like ROI on their investment with you to really grow their business?

SPEAKER_01:

So two of my favorite clients, I have a lot of favorite clients, but two of my favorite clients do the same thing. They're both anti-diet nutritionists, and I'm obsessed with their businesses, their messages, and and what we created for them. So um, for one of the clients, we created this um F. I'm I'm not Are we cursing on this podcast?

SPEAKER_00:

We can you can say whatever you want.

SPEAKER_01:

Okay, so it says fuck diet culture with like a star over the U. Um, and it's written in icing. And this is a woman who just talks about like how diets are ruining women and like how how much more women could be if they weren't just like focused on dieting and like how small they can make their bodies and loving your body at any size. And we made this beautiful, like meaningful line of merchandise for her that absolutely went off the charts in her business and in her following. And like she wears it on like Thanksgiving, she'll post something that says like fuck diet culture, but she's got like a huge like turkey, right? Um, and it just it reinforces her message so beautifully. And like if you read the comments, people are like, Yes, like yes, they it makes them feel so seen and like they want to be a part of it, they want to touch it, they want to also broadcast it, right? There's that another the other client that we work with, we made her an eat carbs um line. So she's got like a t-shirt and a mug and a sweatshirt, and it also just has like eat carbs, eat carbs, eat carbs. And um I'm just like it's just great. It's just like turning this idea of like carbs are bad, like into on its head and being like, no, you should eat these things, or um, you know, making light of it, but also like also making a serious message message that relates to what she's trying to do. Um, and I'll offer one more example. We just launched a store for Joseph Cope, the empathy guy. He's also on LinkedIn, and you see like the village of people around him wearing his message that we designed for him. And it's this beautiful thing of people posting about him and saying, like, this is what Joseph has meant to me in my life, and this is how this sweatshirt like helps me feel connected to him and his message. And I'm like, yes, that's it. Like, that is the deepening of connection, that's the spreading of like um your message. It's the feeling a part of this like community, this identity, this idea, and it's powerful.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I love that. And I saw Joseph's because I saw your post. I don't know, or maybe I saw his post, but I saw that you two had worked together. Um, and then I clicked on I think it was the website. So, and I know that you do, and you can talk about this more, but you guys do like this you talked about the digital storefront. So you guys set that up, right? You work with the clients and set up so that way you know you can go and like you talked about buy whatever you want. You're not just given like here's some swag and we hope you like it. Um, but I noticed on his um that looked more like a uh it was an overall website. Like you talked about like him and like what he does, and then there also was like the merchandise. So is that something you guys did, or was that just like added onto white?

SPEAKER_01:

Everything on the page that says merch, we do. So we build the whole page that says merch into a client's website. Um, any messaging that's on there, all the photos, um, you know, the naming of products, the pricing of products, that is something that we do from scratch for our clients. Um the reason that we do that is that it's not just a way to like sell your branded merchandise, but it's also a gifting platform. So it's a way to say, hey, thanks for having me as a speaker. Thanks for having me as a podcast, pad podcast guest, thanks for um being my client for five years. You know, it's like so rather than saying, like, hey, everyone gets a candle or a bottle of wine or whatever it is, you say, Hey, here's 50, 100,$200 to my branded merchant merchandise shop. I would love for you to pick out something that works for you. And then they can go on and say, like, I absolutely don't want another t-shirt, but I love that mug. Or other way around, I absolutely don't need another mug, but I love that t-shirt, right? And so then there's control over what they get. And if they get something, that's something that we don't like to talk about as business owners, right? Like some people just like don't want it for reasons of their own, the same reason that they might not want your newsletter. It has to do with them. They're like, you know, managing their inbox or they're managing their clutter or they're downsizing or something. Like there might, you might be catching them at a time in their life where giving them a physical gift is a burden and not a gift. And it this sort of respects that as well and let lets people opt out. I like to call it like consensual gift giving.

SPEAKER_00:

That's a great way to say it. But really, it's a double win because not only do they not have to get something if they don't want it, but then you're talking, you're not if they don't order anything, then there's nothing that's made, right? So the waste is cut way down.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's not paying nothing that's paid for. It's a perfectly efficient system in that way.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. No, that's amazing. Um what what are some of the more popular like is it t-shirts, is it mugs, water bottles, or there's is there less mainstream things that people gravitate towards?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so I love this question because so many people are like, what's like a really unique thing that I can do? And I advise all of my clients to actually stay away from the really unique things. Um, and the staples and the basics are called staples and basics for a reason. People really like them. People like t-shirts, they like sweatshirts, they like mugs, they like tote bags, they like hats. The thing that makes it special is the design that's going on it. It's not so much that like it's got like a hole in a weird place or like it's a tech charger that's also a flashlight. It's like this multi-purpose, you know, uh, you know, it's a beanbag that turns into an iPad holder. It's like, no, if somebody wants that, they'll go out and buy it, unless it's very specific to your business. Like, unless you are, you know, let's say you're a dentist and like you want some branded merchandise that's like an electric toothbrush that like has a mirror on it because you're all about who knows I'm making something up. Then if it relates to your business and it makes sense, go for it. Otherwise, uh, I would not bend your brain trying to find like the most unique thing that you could find. Because the truth is the people who want that thing, if they take it from you or buy it from you, they're going to use it and like it. But a lot of people are not gonna want it or choose it.

SPEAKER_00:

That makes sense. Uh I wouldn't have thought of it that way, but it does but it does make sense. Um, what how do you you guys, because you work with clients, it's a fairly long relate long-term relationship, right? Like it's not like you just come in, set it up, and you're gone. Like you you stay with people. How to talk about like how that works.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so I like to describe this as like a fractional merch and design team. Um, and what we do to avoid being a shiny object, because so many brands, companies, businesses, they're like, okay, we're gonna like really get into SEO now. And then they like take a course on it and then like literally never do it again. So we want to make branded merchandise for you, but then stay on to be like, hey, are you using this? How are you using this? Like, have you thought about doing this as a giveaway? Have you thought about doing this for this like workshop that you have coming up? Have you thought about doing this to increase your Instagram following? Like, there's so many branded merchandise as a sales and marketing tool with a lot of energy that you can direct towards the things that you need energy on in your business. So if you want people to register for a course or sign up to or listen to your podcast or refer friends to your podcast, there are ways that you can use the branded merchandise to do it. And we want to um teach you about that and be on hand to be like, hey, how are you being strategic with your branded merchandise? Why or why not? How can we help?

SPEAKER_00:

No, I like that. I like that a lot. Do you find you work more with like solos, like individual people or small businesses that have, you know, 10 employees, or is it kind of a mix?

SPEAKER_01:

It's definitely a mix. Um, in the beginning, it was more solo prunners. It's still a lot of soloprunners. Um, you know, people who are in really crowded fields, like coaches, authors, financial planners, accountants, um, who are just trying to stand out in like a sea of people who are all using the same marketing language and all posting the same kind of content. It's like, how can you stand out and how can you also like reward the people who love what you're doing already and turn them into brand ambassadors for you? So that's one side of it. The other is like we work with bigger teams that like have are like all remote and want to gift, you know, do gift giving or people who just like want to simplify holiday gifting. Like people underestimate how much time and energy and money merch costs when you're like, oh crap, it's November. Holiday gifting is coming up. Like, oh, what are we gonna do this year? Should we do wine? Should we do cookies? What are we gonna do? Let's print something. I want something unique. Let's do a USB charger, not a USB charger, uh like a um a ring light that like goes on your computer. And it's like, okay.

SPEAKER_00:

Like it's it's exhausting even thinking about it.

SPEAKER_01:

It is exhausting thinking about it. Like, I don't like the idea of these companies printing their name on ring lights makes me tired. Like, don't do that. Don't do that.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm looking at my ring light. I have three, but I'm looking at this one and I'm I'm now picturing like words into that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

Again, if it's appropriate to your business, if you're teaching people to be on camera and you want to have a branded ring light, like that might make sense for you. But for most people, it doesn't. And um, like I know I was at a conference one and somebody was handing out a branded ring light, and I happily took it, but like I could not for the life of me tell you the name of the company that's on there. I took it because I was like, oh, that'll be useful. And like it was, but like it did not deepen again. My litmus test is is it deepening the relationship between me and the brand who gave it to me? No, they gave me a free thing. I was trick-or-treating.

unknown:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

It's funny you uh you had the post, I think it was this week or late last week with the King's Hawaiian. And I thought that was really funny because like like everyone knows the King's Hawaiian roles, right? Like, I mean, I eat those as a kid. Like my dad was like the biggest King's Hawaiian guy like in the world. Um, so I saw the post, and then two days later I was in Kroger. And when you walk in, they typically have a display before you walk into the store, but it's always sweets, it's always cookies and donuts and and muffins, and it was all King's Hawaiian. I was like, what are the I know? I know it's because it's they're prepping for Thanksgiving, but it's not like sweets go out of ta out of you know favor you know around the holidays. But this whole table, which is always sweets, was nothing but the standard, like the old school, like the 12 you know, packed together King's Hawaiian rolls. I thought that was funny.

SPEAKER_01:

It's like remember we exist.

SPEAKER_00:

Remember, remember us. It's coming up. Uh and make sure your kids eat them because once they have one, they'll be like, oh my god, this is like this is like crack bread.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm uh it is crack bread. And I you your comment was so funny. You said, Why do they need to advertise? And I was like, that is actually fair. It's like if you've ever had one, they you don't they don't need to advertise, just keep buying it. It's so good, it speaks for itself.

SPEAKER_00:

It does. Like you're not like walking down and then you see somebody like with a King's Hawaiian sweatshirt on, you're like, oh yeah, the crackbread rolls. I forgot about those.

SPEAKER_01:

But I think that that goes back to identity, right? Like if I'm wearing a King's Hawaiian sweatshirt, you know that I like love nostalgia. I'm like a little laughing at myself, like I'm a little bit, you know, like I'm a kind of quirky and I want to talk about food.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. No, I mean there's definitely more to it. And obviously the biggest brands in the world, you know, Apple, you know, Pepsi and Coke, like their advertising budget is like through the roof. Yeah. It's not like it's not like nobody knows that they exist, but they still, you know, they want to make sure, and so they still spend and also to the point of King's Hawaiian, I feel like there are a million knockoffs.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right? So like I might want the crack bread, but like, what's to stop me from getting the Kroger one that is like literally the same? It's like I have to have a relationship with the orange packaging.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that's true. It was five dollars. I have not bought King's Hawaiian rolls, like maybe in my life. I mean, I've had them a bunch, but always like my mom or my grandma had them or whatever. Um dollars for 12 rolls. I was like, wow, that seems like a lot.

SPEAKER_01:

I live in New York City, so you were like, it's free. Yeah, I'm like, that doesn't, I don't get it. Like our grocery bill is like 15. Unconscionable.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

They also have two um a teen and a preteen, and they've like, I've had to recently like double what I'm buying, like literally double what I'm buying.

SPEAKER_00:

But isn't it but isn't it all snacks? My kids are similar age. Um, they don't really like to eat meals. In fact, I don't think they would eat meals if we didn't make them. They would rather just snap they would rather have 50 snacks, bars, and just yeah, like consumable stuff they can eat with their hands and like that type of stuff. They would just live and sustain like on that. That's true. They don't like they don't really like to have like a traditional meal.

SPEAKER_01:

I I completely agree. And actually, my daughter has made me stop giving her real lunch. Now she all she wants is like the like a the hummus and crackers like pre-packaged Sabra thing. And I'm like, you're getting through the day on that? Like, what's happening? But we do make them have dinner, like actual dinner, and then like literally 20 minutes after dinner, my son will be like, I'm kind of still hungry. And I'm like, the food's still out, like just go get more. Because he would, again, he would take a bar or something. I'm like, there is nutritious food that is still out, like you need to eat that first.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, there's yeah, they don't get they don't get full at all. Uh there's like no amount, it's just completely bottomless. Um they also go, my youngest more than my oldest, but they can go an inordinate amount of time without consuming any food. Like, and I don't know how that's possible. I mean, that it'll be like eight hours, and we'll be like, because he'll go to like somebody's house or they'll be playing, and he'll come back and be like, What did you eat? And he'd be like, What do you mean? It's like, well, you literally haven't been here since noon. It's eight o'clock. Like, did you didn't eat anything? He's like, No. Like, how's that possible? Like, weren't you hungry? He's like, No, I didn't think about it. What? I I don't know how I don't I don't understand. Maybe I did that as a kid, I don't remember, but like I eat like every like 90 minutes. Like, I I'm all like, oh, I gotta have something, like a banana or a almonds, or like something. I have to have something. It doesn't have to be a lot, but like it's hard for me to go like really long stretches without just something, and they're like, Yeah, I didn't I didn't have anything for like three days. It's cool, it's fine. I'm kinda low, I'm a little hungry now though.

SPEAKER_01:

Kids are weird. That's what we'll say.

SPEAKER_00:

Are your kids all the in the into the 6-7 thing? Is that taking over your household too?

SPEAKER_01:

My god, yes, it's everywhere, it's literally, literally everywhere. In fact, I was at uh a bot mitzvah, and during the service, the um rabbi was like, you know, turned to page 67 and the room like exploded. Exploded. I'm like, kids, time and place, dude.

SPEAKER_00:

Like that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

Like, I don't know how together. They can't do it.

SPEAKER_00:

I know. It's like, but it's I don't understand it because it's just like it's just two numbers next to each other. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

At the same time, I'm like, if the New York Times is writing about it, surely it's ending soon, right? This is they can't keep going on something that grown-ups know about now.

SPEAKER_00:

Uh I got in my wife's car this uh past weekend, and uh the mileage was sixty-seven thousand seven hundred and sixty-seven. No, and and she and so I I was in a uh by myself or it would have been, and so I I drove and ran a few errands. Um, and when I got back, I told her, and she was like, You took a picture, right? It's like, no, I was driving. Like, no, I didn't take a picture of your odometer, that's not safe. She was like, Well, when you got there, I was like, Well, I drove more than a mile, like I would have had to take it like as I saw it. I didn't see it at first. She's like, I can't believe you. She's like, You should have pulled over. Why didn't you pull over? Like, that was amazing. You should have done it. I was like, I don't I don't I don't know. Okay, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01:

It's a weird world we live in now.

SPEAKER_00:

Amazing. Um so what so like what's next? Is this like you've obviously been doing this for a while? Um do you grow it, do you scale it, you just keep doing it? Like what are your what's like the future thought?

SPEAKER_01:

That is a great question and something I'm thinking about a lot. You know, my business partner and I love this business and we love it like for our lives, right? We're both moms of kids very similar age. And, you know, it's interesting, our kids are now older. This is my first year where I don't need to do drop off and pickup. So I, and for her too, like we just have more time. And so we are scaling the business as we get more time, but we're definitely not interested in trading our lives to grow the business, right? Like we don't want to do like we don't want to sacrifice ourselves to have in the name of like pride, to have like a business that like looks super big. Do I want to grow the business? Absolutely. I'm so passionate about what we're doing and we're so dedicated. I think that um one of the things that I'm thinking about a lot and like I don't want to say struggling with, but you know, really putting a lot of intention into is thinking like, how much work do I want to do versus how much management do I want to do? Because I feel like that's really the question question of scaling. Like, I could hire someone to do like all the things that I'm doing, right? And do more oversight, but like, would I be happy doing that? Yeah, I don't know. So I think I'm gonna answer that question really slowly and sort of like we just hired a new person. And you know, as we hire more people, we obviously need to make more money and you know, just feeling it out sort of organically to see and checking in to my for myself and for my business partner, like, are we still happy with the business like this? Should we scale back, scale forward, get bigger, get smaller, sort of situation?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's I that's refreshing to hear because I think a lot of people, uh, especially once you have some success, like you're just always thinking about like more and more more bigger, more money, more people, more everything, which is not necessarily bad.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, but it's also it's time of life, right? Like this is my second business. I had another company that I ran for five years before I had kids, and that was definitely like a uh Zero to 60, run at full speed, th constantly, never stop, never take a break, just like go all out all the time. And I feel like um when you don't have kids and don't want work-life balance, which I did not want at the time, um that was great. That suited me really well. And then I I feel like now that I have kids and you know they're a bit older, I'm just like, my career is not, my career is very important to me, and this business is very important to me, but it is not all of me in the way that it used to be. It used to be like, what's your name? What do you do? Right. And now I'm like, what I do is a piece of who I am. It is not uh like my the way I think of myself in terms of like being successful, being happy, being like a winner is not all to do with is my business growing and working. And I think that is just maturity. Like I don't think that I could have had that when I was running my business in my late 20s, if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00:

No, it's definitely it's maturity, it's life experience. Uh it's becoming apparent. There's a lot of factors in that. Um, and you just start to realize that there's more, there's more to grinding and working all the time. And at some point you have enough money to meet like basic needs, and then after that, they've done studies, right? Like once you get past a certain level, your happiness actually flatlines. Like it doesn't like if you have a hundred thousand, you have a million. There's not there's actually not the difference between like thirty thousand and a hundred thousand is exponential. The difference between a hundred thousand and a million is like very minimal in terms of like how you feel. Like it just you just have you just have more, but it it's it doesn't do anything. It doesn't it doesn't make you feel any better.

SPEAKER_01:

I also think that like I used to be a lot more caught up in like what my peers were doing. Like, what did everyone in my high school and my college do? Like when I graduated college, I was one of the only one of my friends, I was one of the only people of anyone I knew really who didn't go on to get a master's. And I felt really insecure about that. But like at the same time, I kept wanting to do it, but I'm like, I don't know what I would do it for. Like, and I looked into everything I really related to your post today about like you saw all the career counselors and like read all the books. That was me for sure. I like hired all the people, I took all the tests, I read all the books. I'm like, I don't really know. I haven't found a role model of like that person is doing what I want to do. And so I'm like, I can't commit like years and money to get a degree in something when I'm just not sure. And that was like really like emotionally and pridefully painful for a long time. And now I'm like, I don't care. Like, I genuinely am like that. I have friends who are stay-at-home moms. I have friends who are like wildly successful, like uh, you know, working in finance, working in law, like you know, I'm gonna use successful in Ericot's like now, because I don't care, let's say career successful. And like that's just not how I measure myself anymore. And I it's made me so much happier. I think that's the gift of being in your 40s, honestly. It's like um you're released from that, like, oh my god, what are all of my peers doing? And I have to be in lockstep with them, and I'm the only one who doesn't have a master's, and like what does that mean? And yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

No, I definitely age for sure. Uh, because you start to realize that it doesn't really matter. The other thing you realize is that people aren't paying nearly as much attention as you like think they are. Um because they're so wrapped up in their everything that they're doing and what they have going on. Like they're not just sitting around thinking, like, has Amanda gotten that master's yet? Why is she such a slacker? Um like they just they just aren't we think they are. We'd like to think that they are, but like they're not. Um but yeah, that yeah, my journey, I spent a lot, I spent a lot of time. I honestly I spent a lot of time doing nothing. I felt like I was doing something with all the books and the the coaches. Like it felt like progress because it like satisfied the well, I'm doing something. I'm reading this book, I'm seeing this coach, I'm taking this course. I did go back to school and get my master's, and honestly, that was I did that out of boredom. Like I was I had a job that I was really good at, but it was too easy for me. And uh the company would pay like 70% of if I went back and I had a friend who had gone through the program, and he was like, like, why not just do it? And I that's literally why I did it. I was like, all right, it'll literally it'll give me something to do, it'll get me out of the house two nights a week. Um, it'll engage my brain, like whatever.

SPEAKER_01:

But like we need as humans, I really feel like we need that challenge, and boredom is so can be like so insidious. And that's how I felt in all my corporate jobs before. It's why I was so miserable. I was just bored and I was like, where is this challenge? Like, I was so challenged in school, I was so challenged in college, and there was like it was just rich with opportunity to like learn more everywhere, like even if it wasn't academic, like I could learn a hobby, I could learn a sport, I could learn there, just everyone was learning all the time. And then when I got into my first job, they were like, I guess we could trust you with five filing. Like, can you alphabetize? I'm like, what? It was such a slap in the face, I couldn't deal with it. But like the entrepreneurship, I feel like everything's a challenge all the time, like in the ways that I like enjoy and don't enjoy like I find uncomfortable, but like it's the uncomfortable that I've chosen, right? Um for sure.

SPEAKER_00:

And so yeah, that's where I that's where I well and I think uh on the entrepreneurship side of things, what I learned was that it's impossible to be good at everything. So yeah, there's there's sales and there's marketing and there's finance and there's offers and there's actually doing the work, and there's there's a lot of different hats and areas where you you kind of have you're forced to do it, and you just it no matter how good you are, like there's just gonna be parts of that that you're just like I either I either don't like doing it or I'm not good at it, or both. And that's what you really have to identify, and then just you have to get rid of it, you have to hire it out, or like because you'll just end up with it.

SPEAKER_01:

Forcing it.

SPEAKER_00:

Or you'll drain all of your you'll drain all of your good energy battling the bad, and then you won't have left for what you actually like want to do and are good at, and then it just ends up diluting like the whole thing, and I I really struggle with that. Um, so I tell anyone that's and sometimes it's financially you're limited because you're like, I can't afford it. I would almost argue the opposite, like you can't afford not to, because you're investing in the future of the business if you're if it's just something that you're just like I hate X. Don't do it.

SPEAKER_01:

One thing that is such a gift about this business I'm running right now is that I have a business partner. So when I was in my first company, um, it was like that. And I I can't even describe how much I hate doing the business's finances and taxes. It was the kind of thing that I would need to like emotionally gear up to for like a month. And it would, it's the kind of thing that like did not actually take that much time, but like emotionally took me, like wiped me out, right? Like just getting myself to do it. And now that I have a business, and there are a million things like that, of course. And now I have a business partner who is like completely opposite from me in skills and preferences. And so the stuff I do, like, for example, doing this podcast, she would rather like clean a toilet. She would rather clean all the toilets, every toilet everywhere. She would a hundred percent prefer to do that. I love being here. I love talking about it.

SPEAKER_02:

That's a that's amazing.

SPEAKER_01:

Vice versa. Like, she there's a million things she does that I'm like, I I please, I I can't do it. She just she's like, Yeah, I'm happy to do the finances.

SPEAKER_00:

I'm like, Thank you. Don't thank you so much. Um, no, yeah, I totally, I totally feel that. I hate cleaning toilets. I'm trying to think now what I would rather do or what I would clean toilets over.

SPEAKER_01:

Um I'm sure if you really thought about it, like some of these things in your business that you're like, I really don't want to do those.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I'm and I know that it's there. Toilets are bad though. Um but anyway. Um this has been great. Thanks for coming on uh and sharing this. So uh to kind of close it down, what if someone out if someone is thinking about merchandise, branding, you know, adding this to their you know, marketing, like what would be kind of one or two things they you would really want them to like be aware of?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, so don't print stuff just because you think you should. You don't need to give something to everyone. You should choose, you should be choosy about who gets things and make those things meaningful, right? That means don't just drop your logo on things, like think about think about your branded merchandise as you would any other asset in your business. Like you wouldn't post on social with like just your logo. So like think about that. Um, and the other thing is I would say if if at all possible, let people choose what they want and if they want things.

SPEAKER_00:

Nice.

SPEAKER_01:

And I'm happy to offer um personal advice to anyone who's listening. Um, you know that I'm always on LinkedIn, so you can always find me there.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes, absolutely. Um and then how do people find you? I'll put it, I'll link it in the show notes, but if you want to website or what's the easiest way to get in touch.

SPEAKER_01:

Our website is go to market.studio. Our Instagram is go to marketstudio, and you can find me on LinkedIn um as Amanda Hoffman, but just it's one F and Hoffman. It's Amanda Hoffman One F what F. One F. That's how you find me. And uh yeah, I'm always happy to connect.

SPEAKER_00:

Awesome. Well, thanks for the time and insight. Really enjoyed the conversation. Uh appreciate you coming on. Thank you.